someone please helpjd450 crawler trans problems after complete rebuild.
jd450 crawler trans problems after complete rebuild.
Is there someone who is very good on straight 450 crawler HLR trans on here? I have some questions about my trans. I replaced the drive clutch, steering clutches, input clutches, manifold, all the bairings & races oil pump and seals in the trans. When I am pushing the tracks will not spin. It tries to push but does have enough to spin the tracks. I can bump the drive clutch and it will start pushing hard and spin the tracks. Sometime it will push for a bit and stop. Any ideas? I have adjusted the drive clutch till I am blue in the face with no luck. someone please help
someone please help
Interesting that you should bring this particular subject up. I'm not familiar with what you call a straight 450 crawler.... Maybe someone can inform me of what the term straight means. In any event, I have a 78 450C loader with an HLR, it has wet clutches. I was having the same issue as you are describing. I’ve posted up my symptoms here. 450C Clutch Control Valve (HLR)
My water pump grenaded which took out the fan, belt, water hoses but fortunately not the radiator and while it was down for the water pump repair I would figure out why mine was doing what I believe you’re machine is doing as well. Got the water pump fiasco fixed and moved on to the HLR engagement issue.
Hopefully your transmission is like mine. My problem was with the HLR clutch valve adjustment. That is what determines what pressure is being applied the clutch packs inside the transmission. If the pressure is to low the clutches will not fully lock up or slip, not good long term since you will burn them up.
First off you need to remove the bung in the top of the transmission cover, it's on the floor. Once the bung is removed you will see a 1/8" pipe plug, you need remove the plug (3/16 Allen Wrench) to connect a gauge. I would suggest you put grease in the hole of the allen plug so you don't drop it. This is where my adjustment procedure went bad, the end of my 3/16 allen socket broke off in the pipe plug. I ended up removing top of the trans cover and the accumulator housing. Got the broken allen wrench out but still could not get the plug out... ended up drilling down through the center of it an collapsing the sides in to get it out. While a major pita it gave me a chance to increase my new found language skills when working with this type of equipment and having these types of problems arise. It would seem a person can come up with a whole new vocabulary that is not understandable by anyone else other than those who have been faced with a similar issue. I’m sure some of you have heard term code talkers; they were Navajo Indians that were used during WW II to confuse the Japanese, look it up. Anyways I’m going to call my new found the language skill set the Deere language.
Back on subject, with the pipe plug out you will need to install a hose with a pressure gage. The hose can be a grease gun hose; they have 1/8” male NPT threads on the ends. For a gage I would suggest a 200 PSI gage. Mine was a 600 PSI and the scaling makes the procedure more difficult. You will need to pull the floor boards out to get access to the rubber plugs on top the clutch housing.
BTW this procedure is outlined in the manual. Gear transmission needs to be in neutral (between 3rd and 4th gear) lock brakes down, start machine and check to make sure you're in neutral there. Carefully release the clutch to make sure you are indeed in neutral. You can then shift the HLR from gear to gear without the machine taking off on you. Adjust the clutch pedal "free-play" (top of the pedal to where you can feel the clutch throw-out bearing contact the clutch fingers) 3-3/4". Adjustable with the 3/4" headed bolt next to the clutch pedal. If when you turn this adjustment and nothing happens except the bolt raises and lowers. It's a pretty good indication that the linkage on the side of the clutch housing is frozen and needs to be freed up. If that adjustment works OK then pull the rubber plug on the clutch pedal side of the clutch housing [top of housing] Inside, below you will find a stud with a 5/16" nut (1/2" socket). With the engine running at 1200-1500 RPM, and the HLR in H or L range check the pressure, that pressure reading should be about 165 - 180 PSI. Turn the nut clockwise and watch the pressure gage it should go to a maximum pressure then fall off. When it falls off back the screw out back out about 1/2 turn. Push in the pedal about a 1/2 inch and watch the gauge, It should go up slightly (5-10 PSI), now shift the HLR from gear to gear to check pressures ( Please remember, 4 speed in neutral). If the transmission shifts harshly, turn it in one flat at a time while trying the speed of shift. FYI If your maximum pressure is not ~180 PSI you will need to shim the pump relief valve. That is under the other rubber plug in the clutch cover, 15/16 socket will remove it. I used a thin washer to get mine up to 185. FYI a penny got me ~15 PSI.
When I started my procedure my maximum pressure on the gage was around 100 PSI, now I have it up to 185, made all the difference in the world. In fact it is a little too harsh right now although I never do a Forward to reverse without using the clutch anyways. I feather it with my foot.
Hopefully this is your issue as well, good luck and may the force be with you.
 
My water pump grenaded which took out the fan, belt, water hoses but fortunately not the radiator and while it was down for the water pump repair I would figure out why mine was doing what I believe you’re machine is doing as well. Got the water pump fiasco fixed and moved on to the HLR engagement issue.
Hopefully your transmission is like mine. My problem was with the HLR clutch valve adjustment. That is what determines what pressure is being applied the clutch packs inside the transmission. If the pressure is to low the clutches will not fully lock up or slip, not good long term since you will burn them up.
First off you need to remove the bung in the top of the transmission cover, it's on the floor. Once the bung is removed you will see a 1/8" pipe plug, you need remove the plug (3/16 Allen Wrench) to connect a gauge. I would suggest you put grease in the hole of the allen plug so you don't drop it. This is where my adjustment procedure went bad, the end of my 3/16 allen socket broke off in the pipe plug. I ended up removing top of the trans cover and the accumulator housing. Got the broken allen wrench out but still could not get the plug out... ended up drilling down through the center of it an collapsing the sides in to get it out. While a major pita it gave me a chance to increase my new found language skills when working with this type of equipment and having these types of problems arise. It would seem a person can come up with a whole new vocabulary that is not understandable by anyone else other than those who have been faced with a similar issue. I’m sure some of you have heard term code talkers; they were Navajo Indians that were used during WW II to confuse the Japanese, look it up. Anyways I’m going to call my new found the language skill set the Deere language.
Back on subject, with the pipe plug out you will need to install a hose with a pressure gage. The hose can be a grease gun hose; they have 1/8” male NPT threads on the ends. For a gage I would suggest a 200 PSI gage. Mine was a 600 PSI and the scaling makes the procedure more difficult. You will need to pull the floor boards out to get access to the rubber plugs on top the clutch housing.
BTW this procedure is outlined in the manual. Gear transmission needs to be in neutral (between 3rd and 4th gear) lock brakes down, start machine and check to make sure you're in neutral there. Carefully release the clutch to make sure you are indeed in neutral. You can then shift the HLR from gear to gear without the machine taking off on you. Adjust the clutch pedal "free-play" (top of the pedal to where you can feel the clutch throw-out bearing contact the clutch fingers) 3-3/4". Adjustable with the 3/4" headed bolt next to the clutch pedal. If when you turn this adjustment and nothing happens except the bolt raises and lowers. It's a pretty good indication that the linkage on the side of the clutch housing is frozen and needs to be freed up. If that adjustment works OK then pull the rubber plug on the clutch pedal side of the clutch housing [top of housing] Inside, below you will find a stud with a 5/16" nut (1/2" socket). With the engine running at 1200-1500 RPM, and the HLR in H or L range check the pressure, that pressure reading should be about 165 - 180 PSI. Turn the nut clockwise and watch the pressure gage it should go to a maximum pressure then fall off. When it falls off back the screw out back out about 1/2 turn. Push in the pedal about a 1/2 inch and watch the gauge, It should go up slightly (5-10 PSI), now shift the HLR from gear to gear to check pressures ( Please remember, 4 speed in neutral). If the transmission shifts harshly, turn it in one flat at a time while trying the speed of shift. FYI If your maximum pressure is not ~180 PSI you will need to shim the pump relief valve. That is under the other rubber plug in the clutch cover, 15/16 socket will remove it. I used a thin washer to get mine up to 185. FYI a penny got me ~15 PSI.
When I started my procedure my maximum pressure on the gage was around 100 PSI, now I have it up to 185, made all the difference in the world. In fact it is a little too harsh right now although I never do a Forward to reverse without using the clutch anyways. I feather it with my foot.
Hopefully this is your issue as well, good luck and may the force be with you.
 
450C Track Loader
291457T
291457T
there is a 450 (straight) 450B 450C 450D ect. ect...... they did not make a 450A if you will so to clairify just what model 450 they have most guys say 450 straight if its the first model 450 so they dont get asked are you sure its a 450 first run/model ... 
2010 with 622 dozer with mod. 35 ripper and a 2010 with 622 dozer bought in 1969 and a 2010 loader with drott and mod. 36 ripper
-
Stan Disbrow
- 350 crawler
- Posts: 2898
- Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:13 pm
- Location: Raleigh, NC
Hi,
The first series has no letter, although logically it would be an 'A' since the second series was 'B'.
There is an issue with the letter 'C' in that earlier models used 'C' to mean Crawler. Not 'C' to mean the third major redesign in the series.
Far too many people repaint a No Letter or a 'B' and decal it up as a 'C' because it has tracks and 'C' always used to mean Crawler.
We do not refer to a first series as an 'A' because then that would lead to confusion at parts time, when no one knows what an 'A' is.....
So, we refer to No Letter as Straight, as in Straight Numbers......
Stan
The first series has no letter, although logically it would be an 'A' since the second series was 'B'.
There is an issue with the letter 'C' in that earlier models used 'C' to mean Crawler. Not 'C' to mean the third major redesign in the series.
Far too many people repaint a No Letter or a 'B' and decal it up as a 'C' because it has tracks and 'C' always used to mean Crawler.
We do not refer to a first series as an 'A' because then that would lead to confusion at parts time, when no one knows what an 'A' is.....
So, we refer to No Letter as Straight, as in Straight Numbers......
Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
jtrichard and Stan thanks for the explination. Greg, good that you got the plug out without having remove the top cover. I ran mine for quite a while yesterday. If I do a forward to reverse shift it is what I would consider quite harsh which means I need to do a needle valve adjustment to see if that fixes that problem. I've learned to feather the clutch apply now. That being said I can make the apply hard or soft depending on what I'm doing.
If you have the gage installed you are past the hard part. Let us know what your starting pressure were.
If you have the gage installed you are past the hard part. Let us know what your starting pressure were.
450C Track Loader
291457T
291457T
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 148 guests