Newbie needs help

CSW · Post by **CSW** » Thu Sep 18, 2014 8:17 am

Hello fella's, I have poured over this site and found it's the most informative site on the net when it comes to JD crawlers. Lavoy, Thanks for accepting me I do appreciate that you care deeply about this site and from the looks of things you take care and pride in it. Now with that said, I have been all over your site and I cannot find any info on my dozer or have seen where anyone has asked a question and gotten info in return on the same problem Im having.
So here goes, I have a 450E longtrack that has a problem with the transmission overheating. From what I have read norm operating temps are 150 + or - 10 deg. My dozer does great when its cold, pushes as it should operates as it should but after about an hour it starts hesitating between shifts and eventually I have to wait and it will slowly take off. I have been shutting it down when it reaches 185 sometimes 190 deg trans temp or just plain got tired of the long pauses between shifts. The transmission has been gone through recently and the pressures are correct according to the gauges when we check it. I have the dozer tore down right now because I think and have been told that its the "seals" in the steering clutches. I pulled the lines on top of the housing and put air pressure to them, the left side does no gurrgulling or bubbling but the right side does. I had hoped it was the hydraulic lines that are in the case but I have since removed the plates from the top of the steering clutch housing and the line is fine under pressure. I guess my question to you experts is do I have to pull the tracks,sprockets and fined drives out to just slide the shaft back enoiugh to get to these seals without completely removing the steering clutches? I only have a parts manual and it shows two "rings" I believe they are sttel like a crush sleeve of sorts and its also calls them a seal as well. Well anyway I have looked your site over and looked at 123's picture posts which was awesome but in my case isn't the same problem or questions I have. Thanks for any info you may have and thank each and every one of you for a dang good community. Slade Williams,
Nevada MO

JWB Contracting · Post by **JWB Contracting** » Thu Sep 18, 2014 10:37 pm

Unless you have a wide pad, you need to split the tracks and remove the sprocket in order to remove the shaft that connects the steering clutch and the final drive. Then the steering clutch comes out the top of the clutch housing.

We use a long piece of roller bolted together around the clutch with a lifting hook and shop crane to pull them out.

Did you check the pressures when the tranny was hot?

CSW · Post by **CSW** » Fri Sep 19, 2014 6:11 am

yes, from what I gather is the fluid is leaking through the seals or out of the seals (in the steering clutch itself) into the trans without making it's way around and going through the trans. cooler. Which in return is causing it to overheat and then when the fluid gets hot it no longer holds the correct pressures due to viscosity breakdown. Does this make sense? Its tore down with all the tanks removed and the plates off the top, so I guess it's going to have the tracks split and sprockets pulled. Also Jason, how do I know or tell if it's a wide pad? Thanks Jason for the responce, It's much appreciated.

JWB Contracting · Post by **JWB Contracting** » Fri Sep 19, 2014 6:33 pm

A wide pad is going to have 33" track pads. Discovered you could pull the steering clutch on our wide pad without removing the sprocket and rails as there is lots of room to work.

The leak could also be in the HLR clutch packs.

CSW · Post by **CSW** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 6:10 am

My manuals (I have two) says after pulling drive sprocket and tracks, that you pull the cover off above the final. I have done so, made sure to keep the shims with it too. It then says to pull the plug above the plate that I just removed and rotate clutch pack until seeing a set screw and to back off the lock nut and set screw. My problem now is that I have rotated the steering clutch pack numerous times and do not see a set screw on the collar of back side of the clutch pack. Is it possible ther is not one? mine is a 1987 model, did they change this on do away with the set screw? I can pull the clutch shaft out but it stops after moving a few inches, I figure it's just not lining up to come through the bearing race but didn't want to get aggressive with it if there is a set somewhere other than what my manuals say. Is it possible that it has an aftermarket clutch basket with no place for a set screw?

JWB Contracting · Post by **JWB Contracting** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:24 am

There should be a retaining screw. You should at least be able to find the retaining screw hole. You may need to look in the plug hole with a flashlight and have someone else rotate the clutch.

Often we use a short piece of chain bolted to the end of the shaft and use a whipping / pulling action to pop the shaft out.

CSW · Post by **CSW** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 8:00 am

No set or hole for one. Got it lit up and rotated very slow, nothing to be seen. there is a "1" casted in it then there is several digits about 1/4 turn from that then there is an arrow casted in it anoth 1/4 from that but absolutely no hole. Has anyone came across this before?

CSW · Post by **CSW** » Thu Oct 02, 2014 5:30 am

Well, FYI gentelman, I pulled the steering clutches out last night and like I said thee is no set screw and nut or any place on the clutch basket,housing or collar for this. now my manual says there should be but on this 1987 450E there is no set. Inner and outer seals were out and that is the problem. A lot of work for 16.00 worth of seals.

ja600 · Post by **ja600** » Thu Oct 02, 2014 11:07 am

If you don't have a set screw or even a hole for one then I think you have even more problems. I believe the set screw is what locates the clutch on the shaft. Without it the clutch drum can move where ever it wants. I'm just saying it don't sound right to me. Good luck

jtrichard · Post by **jtrichard** » Thu Oct 02, 2014 4:06 pm

ON the 450E above serial number 726647 they did NOT use the set screw they have a snap ring that locates the clutch pack

Stan Disbrow · Post by **Stan Disbrow** » Thu Oct 02, 2014 8:07 pm

Hi,

Ah! There it is! The old Serial Number Break Trick! I suspected as much.

Stan

CSW · Post by **CSW** » Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:18 am

JT, your exactly right! I should have the seals in the clutches and the ol girl back in the dirt this weekend. Brake bands, shafts and clutches all look new in it. The right side was leaking but Im going to put them in the left while Im there. Thanks for the replies fellas!

CSW · Post by **CSW** » Fri Oct 17, 2014 5:56 am

Just an update. The 450E is back in the dirt and running like new. No accessive heat in the trans and shifting like it was just pulled from the asssembly line. Thanks again for all your help. I just pulled a 64 1010 in the shop that I am replacing all the hydraulic hoses on and giving it a tune up. It should be a fun project as the ol girl only has 350 hrs on it.

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