450C

Stan Disbrow · Post by **Stan Disbrow** » Tue Dec 16, 2014 6:01 am

Hi,

But, it would only be drive-thru for something the shape of a 450....

Stan

rufustoad · Post by **rufustoad** » Sat Dec 27, 2014 8:36 pm

Hello JD friends. I hope everyone had a great Xmas! Just an update....after a bit of OSB and a few short 2x4's to repair garage door I got the ol 450 in the garage and I just finished pulling the clutch. I must say I was a bit disappointed but I did find a great coating of heated grease/oil and that must have been what was smoking but the disc does have a new like thickness to it. The throw-out brg was shot and I really did not see a lot of oil in the bell housing. One thing that really stinks is I purchased a clutch for this thing a few years ago and it is not the correct one. I bought it from Broken Tractor before I had gotten my parts book and it winds up that they sent me an 11" instead of a 12" so if anyone knows someone that needs an 11" complete set up (plate, disc, brg) let me know. I am going to call Broken Tractor Monday just to see if they may help but I will not hold my breath. I am now anxious to get this clutch back in so I can start taking pressure readings. I may struggle a bit but I hope to get this back together by Wednesday

and hope to have you some more info.

pondhogvt · Post by **pondhogvt** » Sun Dec 28, 2014 8:15 am

Tim,, there should be "NO OIL" in the clutch housing... look for tell tale signs of where the oil came from.. especially look over tranny input shaft as that seal goes and lets oil out from tranny.. and of course rear main seal on engine,,, but from my experience it has been the tranny shaft seal and bearing. this bearing and seal are part of your transmission pump so a leak there affects more then just the main clutch... good luck...Mark.

rufustoad · Post by **rufustoad** » Sun Dec 28, 2014 12:36 pm

Thanks Mark, like said though I really don't see a bunch of oil just a bunch of nasty greasy residue. THe disc and flywheel seem coated with a greasy type of material but it for sure could have a small leak that mists to create this gunk. I think I will look into a seal and brg like you said just as a maintenance issue. I do have a question for everyone though! I did notice in the final drive (Brake Housing) that the oil was very milky but when I removed the oil cooler and lines that the oil seemed fine to me as in no water. The final steering discs are fed by the trans correct? I am also braising myself for the reverser clutch to be replaced and wonder if anyone has done this job and what the labor intensity is and what you think it will cost? I sure am hoping I wont have to because I lost all directions of movement but I would still be interested in an idea of time and money? Also if you have a good connection for parts outside of JD PLEASE let me know

rufustoad · Post by **rufustoad** » Sun Dec 28, 2014 5:15 pm

Well after abit of further inspection I think (like Mark suggested) the trans pump may be weeping a bit of oil that is causing a bit of gunk build up on the clutch. So it appears that if I pull the bell housing off that this would be fairly accessible? Is this a pretty easy fix and would anyone recommend doing this and I wanted to ask again if anyone has a good place outside of JD to get these parts?

jtrichard · Post by **jtrichard** » Sun Dec 28, 2014 5:41 pm

seals and bearing SHOULD have numbers that a good parts store or bearing house can cross

rufustoad · Post by **rufustoad** » Mon Dec 29, 2014 7:35 pm

I am trying to post a few picts and have determined that it is a task to do on this web but will give it a shot and thought I would post some more as I go. This (if works) just shows how full the brake compartment is of fluid and was wondering if anyone thought it would be OK to pressurize the port where you check for trans oil pressure to 100psi or so to see if I can determine where the leak is coming from on this final drive? As you can see it is plum full and it did have pressure on it when I checked it before.

http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/rufus ... c.jpg.html

pondhogvt · Post by **pondhogvt** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 8:36 am

Hi,,, the first thing I would do is drain the housing... even if you pressurize it now it will just blow oil in your face and everywhere... there are only acouple of things that could cause a pressure leak...If you drain it you will be able to see what I am talking about.

1st you will see a short hydraulic hose about 12"s long,,, and that is a common leak point as it is probably original and 30yrs. old....

2nd would be at the clutch end of this hose is a little hydraulic cylinder that slides into the middle of the clutch pack-brake drum assembly.. the hose activates and causes the clutches to release. probably those seals are worn out or the hose is cracked..

it has to be one of the two as it is the only point of pressurized oil in the clutch housing. everything else is just common sump lube oil.

I have an assembly sitting here if I could post a picture you would understand. but I don't know how to.. You will understand if you drain the oil so you can see. hopefully it is the hose that is an easy fix.

if it is the seals you will have to pull the final drive pinion out to get the cylinder out of the drum to replace seals.. good luck.. Mark..

rufustoad · Post by **rufustoad** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:50 pm

OK, Now I really need some advice. I am posting a picture of a mirror that shows a weep hole next to the hyd hose and this is where my leak is. I am assuming it is the piston seals like Mark was talking about? My question is does the sprocket assy need to be disassembled and the steering clutch drum removed to replace these seals and if I do have to remove all of this would I be smart to replace the steering clutch discs as well? I also found most of my brake linings laying at the bottom of the reservoir

.

http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/rufus ... 9.jpg.html

http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/rufus ... a.jpg.html

pondhogvt · Post by **pondhogvt** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 9:05 pm

Todd, I couldn't see your pictures as my computer is in melt down mode. I'll take it to get cleaned tomorrow but that probably means a couple days with no internet. so I hope this goes thru to you.

You have already given me enough info on your post to tell you how to proceed.

1. I am not sure if you can change seals in the machine,, but you already said the brake lining is in the bottom of the case... so you have to pull the clutch pack-brake housing anyway to install a new brake band,

and you have to split the track and pull the sprocket in order to get the final drive pinion out.. the pinion is under the 3-bolt cover at top of final drive behind the sprocket..9"s long.... You DO NOT have to take the whole final off.

you have to pull this shaft anyway even if you could change the seals inside the machine as they are round seals and this shaft goes thru the middle off that housing and the middle off the little hydraulic cylinder.. so no way to get new seals in there without pulling the pinion gear-shaft.

at that point you've done all the hard work and you have the top of dozer gone so you could get to the steering cover so it's pretty simple to pull the brake drum assembly out whole and put new seals in on the bench and check the clutch discs at the same time.

I know some one posted you don't have to puul the drum to change the brake but I believe that to be wrong.. the 450 and 450B brake band has a hinge in it and you can change them without pulling the drum.. the 450C is a one piece circle if you bend it to make it fit it will never be right..

take a pair of the C-Clamp vise grips and connect to the brake band clips at the top sqeasing the brake band together and hook a chain or come-along th grips and lift the whole assembly out as a whole... of course disconnect the hydraulic hose first.

this cylinder is actually a hydraulically actuated throw out bearing.. clutches are spring locked and hydraulically released...chances are your clutches might be ok the leak wouldn't let them release so the operater probably kept pulling harder on the brake trying to make it turn but it couldn't because the clutches wouldn't release.

but when its all on the bench you should atleast check the clutch discs and steels for excessive wear. I have good used parts if you need them and I also have two N.O.S. 450C brake bands all JD not aftermarket..if you are going to buy new you should contact Lavoy for a price please as he is nice enough to provide this site... goodluck Mark. as stated I will be with no computer for a few days so if you get in trouble just call me 802-279-1888cell#

rufustoad · Post by **rufustoad** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 10:25 pm

Mark, thank you my friend for the help and advice. By the looks of things I am going to hit these issues one at a time not only because this looks like a huge job but it also looks like a bunch of money. I am going to get the main clutch done first and then start on the rear. I am going to try and do some cosmetic work as I go as well. It is because of folks like you and sites like this that I am a little more at ease doing a huge job like this. I had also contacted the postmaster on JDCrawler which I assumed was Lavoy and I don't think he can get a lot of parts for these 450c mods but I will for sure take you up on the parts you have. Talk soon and God Bless

pondhogvt · Post by **pondhogvt** » Wed Dec 31, 2014 9:21 am

thanks Steve.. I stand corrected but I also learned something...so it's all good..thanks, Mark.

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