Are any members on this board familiar with a 450E? We need answers to some simple maintenance questions such as where does one check the final drive fluid levels and also for some more involved questions too such as how would we test to see if the steering clutches are bad or not. I posted earlier to ask about Manuals and was told this model is too new for anyone to have one laying around so I am curious if anyone could point us to any other sources of information on it such as other message boards like this one. I was under the impression our machine was old, but maybe it's not old enough for this board?
We are having a reverse issue when the machine warms up, usually after 10 or 15 minutes it fails to reverse. We have changed the hydraulic pump on the front of the tractor so far to no avail. Thank you in advance for any help, we are fairly inexperienced with Crawler Tractors but have experience with other machinery such as backhoes and trenchers.
Help with a JD 450E Please.
Help with a JD 450E Please.
We need help with a 450E
http://www.johndeeretechinfo.com/index. ... %20MANUALS
JD has a manual for your 450E machine. I have a 450C but I believe the pump on the front of the machine has nothing to do with what is going on with the transmission. What you changed is the hydraulic pump. The transmission pump is in the front of the transmission. There a number of things that could cause your problem. Without more information any answer would be speculative.
JD has a manual for your 450E machine. I have a 450C but I believe the pump on the front of the machine has nothing to do with what is going on with the transmission. What you changed is the hydraulic pump. The transmission pump is in the front of the transmission. There a number of things that could cause your problem. Without more information any answer would be speculative.
450C Track Loader
291457T
291457T
450E help.
As Dr. loch said the pump in front by the radiator is the hydraulic pump and has nothing to do with the transmission.. the transmission pump is between engine and transmission and bolts to front cover of tranny.
Sounds like you are losing your pressure for reverse so it quits working.. Usually when reverse goes first it is because one of the rings inside the manifold broke and your pressure is bypassing so the reverse clutch pak will not stay engaged... and if you keep running it... it will eventually get worse and eat up the whole clutch pak.. quite expensive and lots of labor...
I'll bet that's what it is..it is a guess at this point but for some reason the reverse one seems to go first from excessive wear inside the manifold and then the ring breaks and gouges up the cylinder wall of the manifold and you loose pressure and gets worse as the machine gets hotter...
but lets start over before jumping to conclusions,, pull the floor boards up on the E model...then look for a plug like a small barrel plug...take out..them you have to remove little plug down inside ,, in the middle with allen wrench...DO NOT DROP IT>> attach a 300lb gauge to this plug hole.. then in the yard take main transmission and put it in neutral.. then just shift the hi-lo-rev thru the gears and take readings on your pressures...if you are lucky maybe the pressure is low in all gears and then you can turn it up to spec..
but if it runs say 180-190lbs in hi and low and then plummets when you put it in rev... then you have a leak somewhere...
do the test and tell us what you find,, no point in going over all the scenarios,,it gets confusing....hopefully you are low everywhere.. usually a shim and some adjustment will take care of low pressure..if it doesn't then the pump is spanked......
good luck Mark,,,,, test the pressures!!!!!
Sounds like you are losing your pressure for reverse so it quits working.. Usually when reverse goes first it is because one of the rings inside the manifold broke and your pressure is bypassing so the reverse clutch pak will not stay engaged... and if you keep running it... it will eventually get worse and eat up the whole clutch pak.. quite expensive and lots of labor...
I'll bet that's what it is..it is a guess at this point but for some reason the reverse one seems to go first from excessive wear inside the manifold and then the ring breaks and gouges up the cylinder wall of the manifold and you loose pressure and gets worse as the machine gets hotter...
but lets start over before jumping to conclusions,, pull the floor boards up on the E model...then look for a plug like a small barrel plug...take out..them you have to remove little plug down inside ,, in the middle with allen wrench...DO NOT DROP IT>> attach a 300lb gauge to this plug hole.. then in the yard take main transmission and put it in neutral.. then just shift the hi-lo-rev thru the gears and take readings on your pressures...if you are lucky maybe the pressure is low in all gears and then you can turn it up to spec..
but if it runs say 180-190lbs in hi and low and then plummets when you put it in rev... then you have a leak somewhere...
do the test and tell us what you find,, no point in going over all the scenarios,,it gets confusing....hopefully you are low everywhere.. usually a shim and some adjustment will take care of low pressure..if it doesn't then the pump is spanked......
good luck Mark,,,,, test the pressures!!!!!
350 loader,350c dozer winch and arch,450c winch and arch,450e winch and arch,D37p komatsu lgp dozer,D85 Komatsu dozer,D8k Caterpillar.
450E
Your welcome.. Also I think DR.Loch had an article on here (not to long ago) on how to adjust the HLR and clutch pedal sequence.. if you could find that it is the same as for an E model and would help you greatly as he described it very well.. Mark.
350 loader,350c dozer winch and arch,450c winch and arch,450e winch and arch,D37p komatsu lgp dozer,D85 Komatsu dozer,D8k Caterpillar.
FYI This is the write up from the other post. This was for
Pressing all the way down on the clutch pedal will disengage the main clutch between the engine and the transmission input shaft. That is what you would do to make a gear changes, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th. Pressing down on the pedal up to throw out bearing contact with the clutch fingers, "clutch freeplay" can be used for hydraulic HLR range and direction changes if everything is adjusted correctly.
First make sure the bellhousing is NOT full of oil. Lift the left floor plate, you will see a rubber plug pull it out. Look down inside with a flash light to see if it's full of oil.
While your at it remove the right floor plate as well, you may need access to the pump relief valve spring area.
Next thing that could be causing your symptoms could be that the clutch control valve needs to be adjusted and/or the pump pressure is to low. What does the trans oil look and smell like? The symptoms for that could be that when cold it kind of works alright and then the more you use it it gets to the point of no movement. If that is the case you may have fried all the clutches and now you are going to be learning how to do a HLR rebuild along with the finals.
You really need a manual just so you will know where all the stuff is that I'm going to explain.
You need to, 1 check the clutch free play, should be 3.75 inches. adjust that with the screw on the floor down near the clutch pedal. If you adjust that you need to make sure it ends up in the detent position.
Then you will need to install a pressure gage in the bypass valve port in the accumulator housing through the access hole in the transmission top cover. FYI, a 0- 250 PSI if you can find one, that will give you the best resolution. That will be under the plug on the floor between you feet.
Under the left plug in the bellhousing you see a nut, I believe it's a 1/2' but don't hold me to it. turn it down until you see the clutch pedal just start to move down, then back it out about 4-5 turns.
Get up in the seat, make sure both gear shift and H-L-R levers are in neutral and the brakes locked, press the clutch all the way down and start engine and run at slow idle, slowly let out on the clutch and make sure it is indeed in neutral... Then press in the clutch again and move the HLR lever to forward or reverse and let out on the clutch, this is to make sure the gear section in in neutral. Leave the HLR lever where it is, it must be in forward or reverse though and the manual isn't quite clear on this.
Bring engine up to about 1500-1600 RPM now.
Turn the nut under the left plug clockwise, as you are turning the nut you will see the pressure on the gage increase and then drop. Max pressure you see on the gage needs to be 160- 170 PSI, if it's not then you need to add shims to the pump relief valve spring, thats under the the right plug in the bellhousing. I believe I used pennies, they were good for a bump of ~ 10-15 PSI. Once you have done that, press down on the clutch pedal about 3/4" The pressure should rise about 5 PSI...If the 5 SPI rise requires more than 3/4" turn the nut counter clockwise, if you see the rise at less than a 1/2" pedal travel turn the nut clockwise.
Pressing the clutch down to remove the freeplay will drop the pressure, that is if you chose can make a direction change although once everything is adjusted correctly you don't need to use the clutch pedal. I do on direction changes because after doing the adjustment I need to go back and adjust the needle valve, mine shifts too fast and will jerk you out of the seat.
Once you have done this when you can move the HLR lever from forward to reverse and visa versa you can watch the gauge and it will drop and then rise again and you will briefly hear the motor load up as it shifts and get the mass moving in the other direction.
If the pump pressure was low all the clutch packs could have been slipping, HLR High, Low, Reverse and the finals since they are pressurized from the pump as well.
Good luck and let us know what you find.
Pressing all the way down on the clutch pedal will disengage the main clutch between the engine and the transmission input shaft. That is what you would do to make a gear changes, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th. Pressing down on the pedal up to throw out bearing contact with the clutch fingers, "clutch freeplay" can be used for hydraulic HLR range and direction changes if everything is adjusted correctly.
First make sure the bellhousing is NOT full of oil. Lift the left floor plate, you will see a rubber plug pull it out. Look down inside with a flash light to see if it's full of oil.
While your at it remove the right floor plate as well, you may need access to the pump relief valve spring area.
Next thing that could be causing your symptoms could be that the clutch control valve needs to be adjusted and/or the pump pressure is to low. What does the trans oil look and smell like? The symptoms for that could be that when cold it kind of works alright and then the more you use it it gets to the point of no movement. If that is the case you may have fried all the clutches and now you are going to be learning how to do a HLR rebuild along with the finals.
You really need a manual just so you will know where all the stuff is that I'm going to explain.
You need to, 1 check the clutch free play, should be 3.75 inches. adjust that with the screw on the floor down near the clutch pedal. If you adjust that you need to make sure it ends up in the detent position.
Then you will need to install a pressure gage in the bypass valve port in the accumulator housing through the access hole in the transmission top cover. FYI, a 0- 250 PSI if you can find one, that will give you the best resolution. That will be under the plug on the floor between you feet.
Under the left plug in the bellhousing you see a nut, I believe it's a 1/2' but don't hold me to it. turn it down until you see the clutch pedal just start to move down, then back it out about 4-5 turns.
Get up in the seat, make sure both gear shift and H-L-R levers are in neutral and the brakes locked, press the clutch all the way down and start engine and run at slow idle, slowly let out on the clutch and make sure it is indeed in neutral... Then press in the clutch again and move the HLR lever to forward or reverse and let out on the clutch, this is to make sure the gear section in in neutral. Leave the HLR lever where it is, it must be in forward or reverse though and the manual isn't quite clear on this.
Bring engine up to about 1500-1600 RPM now.
Turn the nut under the left plug clockwise, as you are turning the nut you will see the pressure on the gage increase and then drop. Max pressure you see on the gage needs to be 160- 170 PSI, if it's not then you need to add shims to the pump relief valve spring, thats under the the right plug in the bellhousing. I believe I used pennies, they were good for a bump of ~ 10-15 PSI. Once you have done that, press down on the clutch pedal about 3/4" The pressure should rise about 5 PSI...If the 5 SPI rise requires more than 3/4" turn the nut counter clockwise, if you see the rise at less than a 1/2" pedal travel turn the nut clockwise.
Pressing the clutch down to remove the freeplay will drop the pressure, that is if you chose can make a direction change although once everything is adjusted correctly you don't need to use the clutch pedal. I do on direction changes because after doing the adjustment I need to go back and adjust the needle valve, mine shifts too fast and will jerk you out of the seat.
Once you have done this when you can move the HLR lever from forward to reverse and visa versa you can watch the gauge and it will drop and then rise again and you will briefly hear the motor load up as it shifts and get the mass moving in the other direction.
If the pump pressure was low all the clutch packs could have been slipping, HLR High, Low, Reverse and the finals since they are pressurized from the pump as well.
Good luck and let us know what you find.
450C Track Loader
291457T
291457T
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 96 guests