Newer JD crawlers and 'electronics' and other 'gotchas'

[Stan Disbrow]

Hi,

How far along in the JD450 line can one go before the machines have electronics incorporated into them?

I really don't see that I need any form of electronic control systems in a bulldozer. I can get by with fully mechanical systems, thank you.

Even though I'm an electrical engineer by trade, and have designed some really interesting control systems in my time, I really don't want to add the complexity of such stuff on any of my equipment. Especially, since most of these things are there to prevent operators from being too stupid. I can prevent being too stupid with the Mark-I brain I come with!

I ask because I saw a JD450G, looking to be in decent enough shape, but I see what appears to be an electronic panel on the dashboard in the photos. That has me thinking 'uh oh'.

I bet they aren't made from bog-standard bits that one can grab from Digi-Key to fix if they've gone haywire. Well, actually, I bet they *are* made from standard parts, just that the OEMs pay a few cents more to have the parts makers' ID removed and their own added.

I just ran into that with a Philips plasma display that decided to have start-up issues about a year out of warranty. Philips has no service information, wanting one to fork over $1200 for a power control board. New sets are less than that, of course. However, I lucked out. Someone dumped the factory design data all over the internet, and so I was able to cross those Philips marked parts to standard ones and fix the fool thing - for $20 bucks worth of parts from Digi-Key, including shipping.

I doubt I'd get so lucky with an electronic control board from Deere.

Anyway, how far along can one go before electronics show up? JD450D, perhaps?

Anything else to worry me about newer machines than electronics I can't fix myself because they made it obscure???

I figure someone knows. Hey! Digitup!

Heck, I don't really want a 'G' anyway - they're too new and cost a bit too much for what I need. I'd like to have a newer, larger dozer than my 420c, but would like to keep the cost down under $20k. I'm sure that this rules out a 450G, even though machines are showing up a lot more frequently now that outfits are getting into money troubles around here.

Anyway, the thought about dozers and electronics popped to mind, and I really don't know when they first started showing up....

Later!

Stan

[Tigerhaze]

Hi Stan-

I don't know for sure (still with have to ask Digitup, Lavoy, or someone else) but I'm guessing that it happened about the same time that electronics started becoming commonplace in cars and trucks (i.e. late 80s). Let's see if I'm right

[digitup2]

Actualy the G series are fairly electro gismo free but the H series are loaded down with this option and the J series are even more sophisticated my latest 650JLT is just weeks old and even has GPS built right in to it nothing too uncommon today but I got notice of the 300 hour service from the dealer and they know right where it is .I was also told that some transmision pressure adjustment is needed at this survice on the Email I get from the dealer so they are monitoring the functions as well .The survice request has been sent out this morning so we will see how fast they are .This is the third series of J series and you can't out run the controls on this unit no mater how fast you are on the steering .This dozer is ontop of your every move as you move the controls it is right there .The old second series was about a second plus behind your every command and the first series are about three seconds behind you as you move the Tractive control around .You get more done in a day but machine and fuel costs are getting out of hand The only thing fuel efficent about them is they get the work done faster That 650 J likes it's fuel eight hours and it is sitting on Expensive again .I havent looked up the tank size on the speck sheet but running hard you will not get eight hours on one tank full .They are shure nice to run but at that price $146 000 The day I bought it CAN and US dollars were equal you southern boys can get one cheaper I think!! but it is hard to swallow some times Digitup.

[Stan Disbrow]

Hi,

Hey, that is neat. The dealer's serviceman knows what the machine needs before he even gets there. Plus, the GPS would make it easy to find if someone were to 'borrow' it.

I'm not against the electronics for the intended purpose - to save the machine from some of the operators out there. You know what I mean. The operator isn't usually the guy that forked over $146k, and the guy that did would like to not have the machine trashed. Electronics can really help with that.

Thing is, I'm going to be the operator, and the owner, and know my way around stuff, so I don't feel the need to protect me from me, as it were.

Well, in the end, the problem won't be a problem at all. The price tag on what I'd like to avoid will have me avoiding it automatically!

It's good to know that one can go up to 'G' and not have to worry about having too much in the way of electronics.

Thanks!

Later!

Stan

[Paul Buhler]

Stan:
I really liked my 450c dozer with a six way inside blade, winch, ROPS, and arch. I bought it new in 1978 for about $25,000 (sigh). I liked its relative simplicity and reliability. I could run it all day on about 5 gallons of fuel which meant that jerry can fueling worked. We worked on steep and rocky soils and the only significant work I had to do was re-torque the pads initially, "cork" them for winter and once, repair a bad winch seal that leaked onto the brake band. I now have a 420c and am quite happy pushing away with my inexpensive toy; I miss the power tilt/angle though. I have seen a few 450s around for under $20,000 that appear to be in pretty good condition, but the cheap ones usually have issues - missing parts, bolts, pieces, or otherwise negligent owners. Best wishes finding a good machine that fits your style at the price you want to pay - they're out there, just hard to find.

[digitup2]

The G series were the best Deere made as far as I am conserned .My 550Hs were good units and great to put a days work in on I had electronic problems with one but drove Deere to the point of cutting waranty off and it was a twenty second over look in the manufacturing shop that was the problem .The 550 Js are a big step better no electronics problems the 450J is a bit small for my kind of work . I let little brother venture out on his own with the three Cats [Two D5Gs and a D4H ] I replaced the D4H with the 650J .That D4H was a lemon if I ever owned one .I machine and labour booked 14000 hours last year on dozers so we need late modle units The combinaton of price and up time keep you hooked on new stuff also opperator acceptance to quality machines is a big factor than you would not imagine .Yes there are times that I wish for the days that I owned the old 550 and a backhoe and I would like to retire to that point if the young lad dosen't put me in an old age home before that .Digitup.

[Stan Disbrow]

Hi,

Yes, a 450C is what I've been looking for, along with a 350C or D. Actually, I'd prefer the smaller 350 but a 450 would be OK too and 450's are a lot easier to find around here.

Whatever I get, needs to have a 6-way PAT on it. I love dad's old 420c and she'll still do whatever job I ask her to do, given enough time to do it in, but I often times get tired of the manual blade. You know what I mean!

I'd like to retire the 420c and use it as my antique show machine. Just as she is, too, and not all fancied up to boot. However, before I can do that, I have to find a young-un to replace her for projects. I don't need one all that new, or all that pretty, but I don't want one with twisted and cracked everything - and that's about all I see for sale.

However, the economy is such that outfits will be listing decent iron for sale, and that means my chances of finding a new crawler are getting much better.

I'd like to keep the cost under $20k, but also know better than to look at the $5k specials. They're usually not what they're cracked up to be, but simply cracked up - in many places!

Now, the cost of a 450G is a bit of overkill for what I, and most of us on this board, want a crawler for. However, I saw it advertised and got to thinking 'how new can one go before the things become more complicated than we need?' It's good to know that one can go as new as a 'G' and not get into too many issues.

Of course, now Digitup has to go and tell me that he liked his 450G better than anything else. This from a guy that uses literally everything on a daily basis to do real work. That makes me want to be foolish and go buy a 450G for more money than makes sense for what I need!

Thanks, buddy!

However, logic and reason will overcome, and I'll go back to trying to find a decent 450C.

Later!

Stan

[JD430C]

hey stan, i will sell u my 450c if interested .

andrew

[Tigerhaze]

Stan:
I really liked my 450c dozer with a six way inside blade, winch, ROPS, and arch. I bought it new in 1978 for about $25,000 (sigh). I liked its relative simplicity and reliability. I could run it all day on about 5 gallons of fuel which meant that jerry can fueling worked.

You aren't kidding about that- I rented a new CAT 939 HST crawler loader in the recent past and that machine would drink nearly a tank in an 8-hour day (tank was 42 gallons). My 2010 will maybe use a full tank in a 10-hour day (its tank is only around 15 gallons).

[digitup2]

With purchace and resale value beeing so close keep a eye on the market you should be able to buy a nice early 450G direct drive at a good price .If you like a C you will love a G and they were the last of fuel economy .I find lots of people selling machines lately just to keep a roof over there heads .If you find low hour for a good deal grab it when things get better it will be worth more than the older stuff The Hs and the Js are selling for a lot less but unless you got 50 to 80 G to put into a dirt pushin hobby they don't make $ense.Digitup.

[digitup2]

Digitup.