Hello this is my first time on this forum. I have been buying forn N tractors however I have been wanting to get into crawlers for a long time now. I am about to buy my first one and i have it down to two. What would you guys do and how much are they really worth? Thanks Taylor
the 350 runs perfect but the 2010 needs clutch work and a new battery and alot of other i was told Thanks.
What to buy
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tmillerfarm
- MC crawler
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2008 8:14 pm
- Location: Waynesburg PA
What to buy
Last edited by tmillerfarm on Wed Nov 19, 2008 6:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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tmillerfarm
- MC crawler
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2008 8:14 pm
- Location: Waynesburg PA
You did not mention the relative difference in asking price between the two. Obviously the JD350 is a more modern machine and incorporates all the improvements Deere learned from the JD2010 and previous machines. Of course money may not be your major consideration and you might be looking for a restoration project (in which case I have a JD440 I would be happy to sell you 
).
You also need to consider what you plan on doing with the machine. To mention the obvious, one is a bulldozer and the other is a high lift loader.
One thing I did notice; the JD2010 has some very aggressive grouser pads. It may indicate that the machine was used to push very hard with its blade. This can put a lot of stress on ALL the components of the drive train and running gear
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).You also need to consider what you plan on doing with the machine. To mention the obvious, one is a bulldozer and the other is a high lift loader.
One thing I did notice; the JD2010 has some very aggressive grouser pads. It may indicate that the machine was used to push very hard with its blade. This can put a lot of stress on ALL the components of the drive train and running gear
.JD440-ICD loader; JD440-IC bulldozer; JD440-ICD backhoe; JD440-I backhoe; JD440-I tractor; + five recumbent JD440-ICs
Like Gil said, it depends on what you are going to do with the machine. I also depends on whether the crawler is something you want to restore/collect and own for a long time.
For me personally, there is no choice, a 2010 power six way is the hands down winner, especially it if has the HLR transmission. But, I look at it from a collecting standpoint, and that crawler is one I would most likely own forever.
Lavoy
For me personally, there is no choice, a 2010 power six way is the hands down winner, especially it if has the HLR transmission. But, I look at it from a collecting standpoint, and that crawler is one I would most likely own forever.
Lavoy
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tmillerfarm
- MC crawler
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2008 8:14 pm
- Location: Waynesburg PA
I would like to go the cheaper rout which might be the 2010 but i dont know how much work i would have to put into it. I would like to use the crawler to skid trees, make roads on my property and do brush clearing along my hay feilds. I am fine with bucket or a blade. Gil you said you have a JD 440 what is it like and where are you located also you said the grouser pads are aggressive. are these the tracks? Im sorry but im new but i would love to get to know these crawlers very well. 
Last edited by tmillerfarm on Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The first word/s that you will need to permanently remove from your vocabulary if you are buying a crawler is "cheaper route". By and large, going the cheaper route on a crawler will almost always result in more money later on. There is no such thing as a "cheap" crawler unless a long lost uncle wills you his fully restored crawler when he dies. Virtually any crawler you buy unless it is new enough to have a warranty will require work.
Just as an example, many years ago, I bought a "restored" 440 crawler that the previous owner said he had put over $10,500 into it at the local Deere dealer, over and above purchase price. And no, I did not pay anything close to that, he took a terrible bath on the crawler. Anyway, I got it home, and it took at least another $1000 in parts, and a full weeks work to even get the crawler to the point I could use it. So the moral of the story is, don't assume you will buy any of these old girls and put them to work the second you get it home.
Lavoy
Just as an example, many years ago, I bought a "restored" 440 crawler that the previous owner said he had put over $10,500 into it at the local Deere dealer, over and above purchase price. And no, I did not pay anything close to that, he took a terrible bath on the crawler. Anyway, I got it home, and it took at least another $1000 in parts, and a full weeks work to even get the crawler to the point I could use it. So the moral of the story is, don't assume you will buy any of these old girls and put them to work the second you get it home.
Lavoy
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Paul Buhler
- 350 crawler
- Posts: 991
- Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 6:25 pm
- Location: Killington, VT
I would like to go the cheaper rout which might be the 2010 but i dont know how much work i would have to put into it. I would like to use either to skid trees and make roads on my property. along with brush clearing along my hay feilds so the bucket or blade is fine i would be ok with either.
I'd go with the dozer if you have the time and energy to get it working reliably. You'll like the six way blade for road building and working brush piles. From the picture the tracks look pretty good; on the shown side anyway, there is still adjustment left. If the winch can be made to work, that's handy as well pulling wood and bundling brush. Looking at the blade the previous owned wasn't running into things hard - no major dents or chipped cutting edge. The pads on the loader are street pads and may not give the traction you need in the woods for the tasks you're looking to do particularly if it's muddy or frozen. Look over both machines and determine how they were maintained - a lot of cobbled repairs and missing bolts indicate a more tired machine. JMHO, Happy shopping. Paul
I'd go with the dozer if you have the time and energy to get it working reliably. You'll like the six way blade for road building and working brush piles. From the picture the tracks look pretty good; on the shown side anyway, there is still adjustment left. If the winch can be made to work, that's handy as well pulling wood and bundling brush. Looking at the blade the previous owned wasn't running into things hard - no major dents or chipped cutting edge. The pads on the loader are street pads and may not give the traction you need in the woods for the tasks you're looking to do particularly if it's muddy or frozen. Look over both machines and determine how they were maintained - a lot of cobbled repairs and missing bolts indicate a more tired machine. JMHO, Happy shopping. Paul
Paul Buhler
Killington, VT
420c 5 roll with 62 blade, FOPS, and Gearmatic 8a winch
Killington, VT
420c 5 roll with 62 blade, FOPS, and Gearmatic 8a winch
Hi Tim-
I own a 2010 crawler loader and had to go through this decision process so I can give a little insight on my thoughts.
As others have stated I think the most important thing to first decide is what you ultimately want to do with the crawler, and it sounds like you already decided that (road building, brush cutting, tree skidding).
Strictly on those tasks I would say a dozer is a better choice than the loader for those tasks. If you have a working winch, it will really come in handy for the log skidding and if the crawler gets stuck. If you think that you may need to do other things in the future such as felling trees intact, performing excavation, or loading trucks then the dozer would likely not be the best choice.
Dozers have some other advantages over loaders which include lighter weight for hauling, generally less stress on drivetrain components (assuming all other factors equal), and easier access to the front for maintenance and repair of engine and other front-located components. Loaders have the advantage of loading materials and felling trees intact (because you can get more leverage by pushing higher on the tree).
This discussion is unrelated to the differences between a 2010 and 350 or the machines in particular you showed us. You can search previous posts on here about the 2010/350 differences, but generally the 2010 has reduced parts availability and increased parts costs, especially for undercarriage components like sprockets. The 2010 engines are somewhat expensive to repair. The 2010 does have some desired features, which could include a H-L-R transmission which is desirable. the 2010 probably has more collectability because of age and the reduced numbers produced.
As for the specific machines you showed us I see advantages and disadvantages.
The 2010 you showed had a winch, which if operable is a plus. The 6-way is also a desired feature. The grouser pads look like in good shape- they are agressive which is good for traction in soft ground but provides more wear and tear on hard ground. It is hard to see the sprockets or rest of undercarriage so hard to make a determination although rails look sufficiently thick. The sprockets do look like maybe they are worn (which is huge) and the track is adjusted a little too tight which is problematic if run like that all the time (increased wear). Obviously the clutch issue is a problem as the final drives would have to be removed to repair. The battery is no big deal, but the "other" issues could be big depending on what they are. You will want to run it to see how well the H-L-R works when hot and the engine condition overall.
The 350 loader appears to have a very worn undercarriage- the sprocket teeth appear to be pointed and the triple bar pads appear to be completely smooth. I can't see for sure, but it appears that the rails are somewhat thin and the pin bosses may be worn by the rollers. The rest of the crawler appears to be in good shape but hard to tell from one pic. The 350s in general have some weakenesses that you can read about (such as trackframe problems) so you will want to check that over as well.
As others have said, you can't assume a "cheap" route as none are cheap. If you buy a less costly crawler, think of it as an installment plan which gets you into ownership but will likely require more cost time to time in the long run. Once you have decided on type and model of crawler, try your best to get a test run to look for defects, preferably get the machine hot so you can see transmission issues. It would be ideal to take someone along that knows crawlers, and specifically these crawlers, so they can point out flaws and you can negotiate cost accordingly.
I own a 2010 crawler loader and had to go through this decision process so I can give a little insight on my thoughts.
As others have stated I think the most important thing to first decide is what you ultimately want to do with the crawler, and it sounds like you already decided that (road building, brush cutting, tree skidding).
Strictly on those tasks I would say a dozer is a better choice than the loader for those tasks. If you have a working winch, it will really come in handy for the log skidding and if the crawler gets stuck. If you think that you may need to do other things in the future such as felling trees intact, performing excavation, or loading trucks then the dozer would likely not be the best choice.
Dozers have some other advantages over loaders which include lighter weight for hauling, generally less stress on drivetrain components (assuming all other factors equal), and easier access to the front for maintenance and repair of engine and other front-located components. Loaders have the advantage of loading materials and felling trees intact (because you can get more leverage by pushing higher on the tree).
This discussion is unrelated to the differences between a 2010 and 350 or the machines in particular you showed us. You can search previous posts on here about the 2010/350 differences, but generally the 2010 has reduced parts availability and increased parts costs, especially for undercarriage components like sprockets. The 2010 engines are somewhat expensive to repair. The 2010 does have some desired features, which could include a H-L-R transmission which is desirable. the 2010 probably has more collectability because of age and the reduced numbers produced.
As for the specific machines you showed us I see advantages and disadvantages.
The 2010 you showed had a winch, which if operable is a plus. The 6-way is also a desired feature. The grouser pads look like in good shape- they are agressive which is good for traction in soft ground but provides more wear and tear on hard ground. It is hard to see the sprockets or rest of undercarriage so hard to make a determination although rails look sufficiently thick. The sprockets do look like maybe they are worn (which is huge) and the track is adjusted a little too tight which is problematic if run like that all the time (increased wear). Obviously the clutch issue is a problem as the final drives would have to be removed to repair. The battery is no big deal, but the "other" issues could be big depending on what they are. You will want to run it to see how well the H-L-R works when hot and the engine condition overall.
The 350 loader appears to have a very worn undercarriage- the sprocket teeth appear to be pointed and the triple bar pads appear to be completely smooth. I can't see for sure, but it appears that the rails are somewhat thin and the pin bosses may be worn by the rollers. The rest of the crawler appears to be in good shape but hard to tell from one pic. The 350s in general have some weakenesses that you can read about (such as trackframe problems) so you will want to check that over as well.
As others have said, you can't assume a "cheap" route as none are cheap. If you buy a less costly crawler, think of it as an installment plan which gets you into ownership but will likely require more cost time to time in the long run. Once you have decided on type and model of crawler, try your best to get a test run to look for defects, preferably get the machine hot so you can see transmission issues. It would be ideal to take someone along that knows crawlers, and specifically these crawlers, so they can point out flaws and you can negotiate cost accordingly.
(1) JD Straight 450 crawler dozer with manual outside blade; (2) JD 2010 diesel crawler loaders; (1) JD 2010 diesel dozer with hydraulic 6-way blade; (2) Model 50 backhoe attachments, misc. other construction equipment
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jdemaris
Re: What to buy
I'm going to assume you don't have a lot of mechancial experience - especially with Deere crawlers? If that is the case, you can't assume all is true as has been told to you in regard to condition. Yeah, crawlers are rarely cheap, and - same goes for old trucks, wheel tractors, etc. Parts are getting harder to find, and/or more expensive every day. And, if you tend to pay other people for complex mechanical work? From what I've seen, there are few skilled people around, and the number keep getting smaller. Yet, money charged - often for incompetent work - keeps increasing. I'm not trying to be insulting, just trying to be frank about things - at least as I see it in my area of New York. I'm in a rural , almost -ex-farming area - and 20 years ago - there were skilled people willing to work reasonably, tractor salvage yards that charged reasonbly prices, many good tractor dealer shops, and many good machine shops around. Not the situation any more.tmillerfarm wrote: . . . I have been wanting to get into crawlers for a long time now. I am about to buy my first one and i have it down to two.
the 350 runs perfect but the 2010 needs clutch work and a new battery and alot of other i was told Thanks.
I mention all this just to stress that buying a simple machine with good parts support can help a lot in the long run. That alone, rules out the 2010. I like the 1010s and 2010s - but parts support is poor with OEM, and even worse with aftermarket. There are already many parts no longer available anywhere new. In fact, some parts were unavailable 15 years after the first 2010s came out new.
With the 350, used parts are all over the place. The engine is a newer generation that got many upgrades from Deere Company and parts are easy to get, OEM and aftermarket. Track parts are still available aftermarket also. The reverser (if your machine has that option) was used for many years in newer machines - and is cheaper to repair than the HL-R in the 2010. If no reverser and a clutch, even cheaper yet.
If you haven't heard already, the 1010 and 2010 series has an awful rep.
Just about the worst in Deere history. Not all deserved, but it does exist. Many shops won't work on the diesels - and even those that do, often don't excel at it. 1010s and 2010s are the first Deere diesels to ever use rotary injection pumps and early machines have pretty crude systems.
Personally, I can't imagine anyone buying a 2010 as a work machine unless either - the person is a skilled and resourceful mechanic - or has a good friend with those qualities - that owes many favors.
That all being said, for road work, having a dozer is big plus over a crawler-loader. I'd say, get yourself a 350 or 450 dozer with a 6-way blade and you'be be a lot better off than with the 2010 - unless you are a skilled tech.
I went the "Cheap Route" when I bought my 420-C , and I can tell you cheaper is not necessarily a better way to go . Expect to find all kinds of things that you missed on the first inspection , go over the crawler witha finr tooth comb . Take your time inspecting it before buying it . I might have passed on the one I bought IF I had spent a little longer inspecting it . Dan
1956 420C with GSC blade
Tools are to men as shoes are to women , you can never have too many !!
Used diesel engines are an adventure any way you look at them !!
Tools are to men as shoes are to women , you can never have too many !!
Used diesel engines are an adventure any way you look at them !!
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The Fireman
- 420 crawler
- Posts: 33
- Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2007 12:23 pm
- Location: Upstate New York
As said there is no cheap crawler, also no how much time you spend inspecting one there will always be something that was missed. When I bought my 440 I knew I was going to have the engine apart and at least one steering clutch before it would be useable. 1000 dollars latter and alot of time I now have a crawler that has built me a 1200 foot drive way and has been a ball to run.
However I still need to rebuild the other steering clutch and really want to have a look at the tranny and main clutch also. In my case I got the machine cheap $1000 at a yard sale and the tracks are decent so I cant complain. I'm also a heavy equipment mechanic and enjoy working on the old stuff so for me thats half the fun.
I my case I'd go with the 2010, I have a loader on my 440 and it is definatly a usefull option but for me a dozer would have been more usefull and a winch would be the cats hind end. But if the price is right I would buy the loader all over again also.
However I still need to rebuild the other steering clutch and really want to have a look at the tranny and main clutch also. In my case I got the machine cheap $1000 at a yard sale and the tracks are decent so I cant complain. I'm also a heavy equipment mechanic and enjoy working on the old stuff so for me thats half the fun.
I my case I'd go with the 2010, I have a loader on my 440 and it is definatly a usefull option but for me a dozer would have been more usefull and a winch would be the cats hind end. But if the price is right I would buy the loader all over again also.
Your agricultural tractor knowledge should help you evaluate the different machines’ engines, transmissions, and hydraulics. No mysteries there just because they are crawlers. The direction reverser is item that keeps the crawler in the same gear speed but reverses the direction of travel. Reversers can be expensive to fix. Don’t accept any claims like “it usually works fine but right now it is just a little stiff now from sitting”.
The main differential between a crawler and an ag tractor is the final drive area where the power is transferred to the sprockets and where the brakes and steering clutches are. A lot of the wear and tear happens here. Brakes and clutches are available new aftermarket (ask Lavoy). On a JD440 I estimate $1000 per side for complete replacement IF I do the labor myself. Drive gears and components are more expensive. They would probably be cheaper and more available on the newer machine. My recommendation would be to drive both and see how responsive they were to just finger tip control and that they were the same on both sides. If the JD2010 won’t operate it could be just clutches and brakes but there could be more wrong.
The other crawler item is the undercarriage – the components of the track system. These are at least readily available for inspection. It is helpful if you have seen a crawler in good condition. Then you can judge how nearly new parts should look. Reach under and feel the pins that run in the sprockets. They were round when they were new. Flat sides indicate wear.
The grousers are the part of the JD2010 pads that bite into the ground. If the crawler is pushing and the pushed item will not move, the engine power pushes against the drive train and the tracks. Smooth tracks can slip, as only the weight of the crawler keeps it from slipping. Sounds good to have heavy grousers, but if the tracks cannot slip there is a lot of stress which makes things break. Remember that the only way a crawler can turn is to slip over the ground on one side. You can be careful, but the question is, was the last owner careful?
As far as a bulldozer versus a loader, you would probably find a bulldozer more useful for your projects (I would kill for a six-way blade) but you cannot use it to load a dump truck. If you want a loader I mentioned that I have an extra JD440 in good condition in Gettysburg but you will have to remove the engine and transmission to replace a $5 part – see Lavoy’s earlier lament. Other members on the board probably have other machines available. Happy hunting!
The main differential between a crawler and an ag tractor is the final drive area where the power is transferred to the sprockets and where the brakes and steering clutches are. A lot of the wear and tear happens here. Brakes and clutches are available new aftermarket (ask Lavoy). On a JD440 I estimate $1000 per side for complete replacement IF I do the labor myself. Drive gears and components are more expensive. They would probably be cheaper and more available on the newer machine. My recommendation would be to drive both and see how responsive they were to just finger tip control and that they were the same on both sides. If the JD2010 won’t operate it could be just clutches and brakes but there could be more wrong.
The other crawler item is the undercarriage – the components of the track system. These are at least readily available for inspection. It is helpful if you have seen a crawler in good condition. Then you can judge how nearly new parts should look. Reach under and feel the pins that run in the sprockets. They were round when they were new. Flat sides indicate wear.
The grousers are the part of the JD2010 pads that bite into the ground. If the crawler is pushing and the pushed item will not move, the engine power pushes against the drive train and the tracks. Smooth tracks can slip, as only the weight of the crawler keeps it from slipping. Sounds good to have heavy grousers, but if the tracks cannot slip there is a lot of stress which makes things break. Remember that the only way a crawler can turn is to slip over the ground on one side. You can be careful, but the question is, was the last owner careful?
As far as a bulldozer versus a loader, you would probably find a bulldozer more useful for your projects (I would kill for a six-way blade) but you cannot use it to load a dump truck. If you want a loader I mentioned that I have an extra JD440 in good condition in Gettysburg but you will have to remove the engine and transmission to replace a $5 part – see Lavoy’s earlier lament. Other members on the board probably have other machines available. Happy hunting!
JD440-ICD loader; JD440-IC bulldozer; JD440-ICD backhoe; JD440-I backhoe; JD440-I tractor; + five recumbent JD440-ICs
I noticed a few more things looking at the pics of the 350 loader- unless you plan to use it very ocassionally you should probably assume that you will need to replace the undercarriage fairly soon- should figure it into the asking price.
Also, if you didn't otherwise know the canopy on the 350 in the pic does not appear to be a structural ROPS- it appears to be a sunshield only. The sunshield shown in the pic will likely not adequately protect you in a rollover and probably shouldn't be considered a safety feature. Thought I should mention that.
Jdemaris is correct about parts availability on the 2010s- some of the parts have been discontinued, even beyond undercarriage. I found that the hydraulic oil filter base for the loader was unavailable and had to find a salvage yard for it. Most of the standard parts like filters and starters and such are still available though aftermarket parts are limited.
I am not advocating either model crawler, but can see issues with both machines in the pics. A 350 dozer may be your best choice. Another option to a 350 dozer is a 450 dozer- it has some of the features of a larger crawler (such as the H-L-R powershift transmission) and have heard on this board that it is a little more rugged than the 350. I think this is more important for the loader than the dozer (people have mentioned the 350 is a little underpowered as a loader), but the 450 is heavier to transport than the 350. Just some more food for thought before you rush into something.
Also, if you didn't otherwise know the canopy on the 350 in the pic does not appear to be a structural ROPS- it appears to be a sunshield only. The sunshield shown in the pic will likely not adequately protect you in a rollover and probably shouldn't be considered a safety feature. Thought I should mention that.
Jdemaris is correct about parts availability on the 2010s- some of the parts have been discontinued, even beyond undercarriage. I found that the hydraulic oil filter base for the loader was unavailable and had to find a salvage yard for it. Most of the standard parts like filters and starters and such are still available though aftermarket parts are limited.
I am not advocating either model crawler, but can see issues with both machines in the pics. A 350 dozer may be your best choice. Another option to a 350 dozer is a 450 dozer- it has some of the features of a larger crawler (such as the H-L-R powershift transmission) and have heard on this board that it is a little more rugged than the 350. I think this is more important for the loader than the dozer (people have mentioned the 350 is a little underpowered as a loader), but the 450 is heavier to transport than the 350. Just some more food for thought before you rush into something.
(1) JD Straight 450 crawler dozer with manual outside blade; (2) JD 2010 diesel crawler loaders; (1) JD 2010 diesel dozer with hydraulic 6-way blade; (2) Model 50 backhoe attachments, misc. other construction equipment
Just an FYI if it fits in your calculations as to which to buy, 350 undercarriage is kind of scarce right now. At least from my vendors, there are no 3 bar semi-grousers to be had til some time next year, and I don't mean January. Two months ago, I bought the last set of 350 rails and 12" grouser pads one of my vendors had. He did get a few more sets in a little later, but I bought another set from him 2 weeks ago, and again, they were the last set he had. Another had two rails left a week ago, and that was it until next year some time.
The story I get from both is the same, the manufacturers are only tooling up 350 stuff once or twice a year, and when it is gone, tough luck, see you next year.
Another long term wrinkle that might happen is Komatsu is looking at Berco. If they buy them, that may eliminate Berco from the aftermarket. Plus if they then quit making for Deere, Hitachi, Liebherr, and some others, then those guys will have to go elsewhere and that may tie up some of the other manufacturers.
Hell of a deal for us guys working on the old junk, huh?
Lavoy
The story I get from both is the same, the manufacturers are only tooling up 350 stuff once or twice a year, and when it is gone, tough luck, see you next year.
Another long term wrinkle that might happen is Komatsu is looking at Berco. If they buy them, that may eliminate Berco from the aftermarket. Plus if they then quit making for Deere, Hitachi, Liebherr, and some others, then those guys will have to go elsewhere and that may tie up some of the other manufacturers.
Hell of a deal for us guys working on the old junk, huh?
Lavoy
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