Help Timing without the timing tool AM-450-T

dhallstead · Post by **dhallstead** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 8:24 pm

I was looking everywhere to find a timing tool AM-450-T like it says in the book. None to be found or the part # has changed or not looking in the right direction. I was dumped into this project and with a new rebuilt engine? I think. not to sure what they did. What I did and see is the oil pump was install wrong because the distributor rotor was off 90 degrees when i set it on "spark" on the flywheel with the rotor no where near #1 "90" off. The carburetor was pouring gas out of it, but the spark plugs were dry. This is what i did took the oil pump out align with the narrow side out when the oil pump back was back in. with TDC on the Compression stroke. Now the rotor is straight in the middle of the two heads. Is that close??? don't know. Now for the carburetor I didn't look yet. I think the float would be stuck down if it's pouring out. I just need help please. Start me in a direction.

Ray III · Post by **Ray III** » Sun Dec 28, 2008 5:38 am

This is what the distributor looks like on mine.

As long as the distributor can be rotated to line #1 up with the rotor it will fire. It just looks better this particular way.

dhallstead · Post by **dhallstead** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 1:16 am

Thank you for the pic when I put it on spark and put to rotor just about to touch #1 and points just staring to open that's where my distributor is at. So that's good. I'm waiting for the weather to warm up a little before trying it out. -20f right now. I'll wait until it hits zero before i try it. I did try it but didn't start around -5f. But i took the carburetor off and cleaned it seems ok. but I put it on and tried it and it was still pouring gas out the bottom of it. The spark plug were dry again. Why would it be pouring out the bottom??? And dry on the spark plugs???

snoopy · Post by **snoopy** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 8:04 am

You might want to do a compression test. you need the suction to pull gas into cyclinder. Check for proper valve timing, if the oil pump was wrong maybe the cam is off too.

when choking the carb, during starting I always get a bit of gas to run out of bottom of carb, especiallly if it does not fire right off.

dhallstead · Post by **dhallstead** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 11:08 pm

OK I got it to run, but on the picture there I have the spark plug wires crossed. When I had it the other way (right way) it would back fire really loud. Scared me good. Blew off the cap to the exhaust and flew right by my head. I was lucky. With the wires crossed it runs OK. What did I do wrong???

Pammark · Post by **Pammark** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 2:11 pm

I am confused. You say the engine ran and backfired when the plug wires were reversed. Was it running on both cylinders or just on one? Rotating the distributor even 180 degrees will not change the order the cylinders need to fire. Unless you are running on one cylinder. Then you are 90 degrees out of phase.

If there is a question, pull the valve cover off. Rotate the engine by hand and look when the valves open and close. When #1 cylinder two valves are just between both opening and closing, turn the engine one more full revolution (line up a timing mark) and you should have the points just opening and the rotor pointing to that wire. If this is OK, then do the same trick with #2 cylinder and see if the rotor is pointing to its appropriate spot. If this checks out, install the valve cover and you are in time on both cylinders. After it is runing, you can make the fine adjustment on the timing.

Mark

dhallstead · Post by **dhallstead** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 3:29 pm

Thank you for the replies. It would back fire when the wires were correct and not run. When i crossed the wires it would run. I believe you are right that's it's 90 off and running on one cylinder. I took # 1 spark plug out and put a rubber plug in and when it blew out I now know it's on the compression stroke. I moved it back a little to TDC and now I'm draining to oil and turning the oil pump gear 90 degrees. I adjusted the valves on #1. I don't see a mark on the flywheel for 180 degrees to adjust the #2 valves. Not sure what this means "If this is OK, then do the same trick with #2 cylinder and see if the rotor is pointing to its appropriate spot."???

snoopy · Post by **snoopy** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:30 pm

HI! something is not right . if you installed the pump as you stated with the groove parallel to crankshaft with with narrow part towards the outside of engine or tractor as book states then the problem has to be with the installation of the distributor. if everthing is off by 90 degrees, it has to be IMHO the installation of the distributor. If you want I can scan the ignition timing procedures and send them in a personal message.

Good luck

Post by **Lavoy** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:51 pm

Just a thought, did you check the distributor cap? Unfortunately there are a substantial number of parts dealers out there that do not understand that the Dubuque engines and the Waterloo engines with the vertical distributor do not use the same cap. Even though many of the aftermarket books will tell you they do, that is not the case. If you put a Waterloo dist cap on a Dubuque, you automatically have a one cylinder engine, the cap is oriented 89 degrees off.
Lavoy

dhallstead · Post by **dhallstead** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:58 pm

Hi here's what i did today. lol I took out the oil pump. Lavoy pointed out I did have it out 90 degree. Thank you Lavoy. So now it's like this.

12-30-08_1655 The distributor cap has brass in it. that's all i know. I will look tomorrow. I will look in the PM snoopy thank you guys for all the help.

Tigerhaze · Post by **Tigerhaze** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 10:05 am

Dhall-

I have found it easiest to post my pictures on a free online photo sharing site (I use Photobucket). Once posted, it gives you the path for the photos to paste into your post, using the

tags.

snoopy · Post by **snoopy** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:43 pm

The instructions for posting pictures are in the show and tell section of this board. they work real well well once you make the pictures small enough to download. the requirements are all spell out and easy to understand.

dhallstead · Post by **dhallstead** » Sun Jan 04, 2009 3:13 pm

update is -30F degrees below and not working on it. I got a new pulley, but still it just don't look right with the rotor pointing at the alternator when on TDC compression stroke. Good news is that it quick snowing and don't need it.

dhallstead · Post by **dhallstead** » Sun Jan 04, 2009 11:43 pm

put the space heater on it for a half hour and it started right up. Thank you guys for all the help.

Ray III · Post by **Ray III** » Sat Jan 10, 2009 9:31 am

Maybe I'm missing something but it sounds like all you had to do was pull the distributor out, aim the rotor in the right direction, and put it back in? A previous owner may not have installed it correctly.

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Help Timing without the timing tool AM-450-T

Help Timing without the timing tool AM-450-T

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