1010C loader to buy or not...

[Jason Z in MO]

Hello, I'm new to the this board but I did spend several hours searching the archives to answer some of my questions. I'm new to crawlers but do have some experience with John Deere wheeled ag tractors.

I will be looking at a 1010 in the next day or two and would like to know what to look for. Based on what I was told and from the limited pictures: Current owner had it about a year and previous owner used it to clean manure from barns. Good running engine (gas), electrical system is in good shape, gen rebuilt, started rebuilt, all gauges work. Sheet metal is straight, loader pins tight with very little wear. Bucket has worn teeth but not torn or damaged. Good original paint, (does looks good) rear weight stack, no PTO, drawbar frame but actual drawbar is missing. rails are worn??? Rock guards installed. Has shuttle/reverser. Both steering clutches are locked up/rusted. Tractor sat out this summer and apparently they rusted.

My plan for the tractor, besides another toy... (my wife's comment) would be to open up some fence rows, take out some nasty blackberry bushs and cut a building pad. First question - is this tractor gonna be big enough? I would like to push down a few small trees; 10" or less.

2nd - where do I find a parts manual? I looked on JDparts.com and I can't find the 1010c tractor manual. Does it need to be purchased? It does have the 1010 crawler loader but not the tractor itself.

3nd - I assume the tracks and final drives need to be removed and the clutches rebuilt. Does the 1010 share the same steering clutches with other crawlers; 420 or 2010?

4th - I asked how many rollers on the undercarriage, he didn't know but will call me tomorrow as well as provide the serial number. What should I look for to determine the wear on the undercarriage?

Guess that's about it for tonight, oh yeah, he is asking $2800. Sorry if this is long... Thank you for your comments!

Jason

[Lu47Dan]

Jason , here is a link to the manual .
http://www.johndeeretechinfo.com/index. ... %20MANUALS
And here is the link to the home page
http://www.johndeeretechinfo.com/index. ... NSTRUCTION
Dan

[Lavoy]

I have parts manuals on hand, but not service.
Yes, you will have to split the tracks and pull the finals to do the steering clutches, I have them on hand as well. Some of the pieces are the same as two cylinder crawlers.
You should have no problem with a 1010 for what you want to do. It won't do it as fast as a 450 loader, but a 450 will not be as fast as a 755, so it is all relative.
A loader crawler will be 5 roller.
Lavoy

[Jason Z in MO]

Thanks for the info. The reason I asked about parts is I have some mc/420/1010/2010/350 crawler NOS parts I have collected over the years. Some steering clutch / brake band parts for various tractors. Hopefully I will have something on hand to at least off set the repair costs.

Lavoy, if I buy the 1010, I will contact you about parts/manuals etc.

Did the 1010 have a roll cage option?

Thank you for this web site too!

[Lavoy]

I think 350 ROPS may retrofit. I have never seen or had any factory literature for a 1010 ROPS. My only guess would be that there was a service bulletin on installing later ROPS on earlier crawlers. Someone else here may have that info.
Lavoy

[Jason Z in MO]

Thanks Lavoy, I'm not so worried about roll over on my mostly level ground but I will be working around trees. I would rather have something more substantial then a cap or hard hat!

I continue to read but the more I learn the more questions! Other posts mention worn rails. I think the rails support the lower rollers; correct? How do I know if the rails are worn? What is the track link measurement for the 1010?

These pictures turned out a bit small...


[/img]

[Lavoy]

Most of the time, rails means track rails, like in train track rails, also called chains. What you are referring to might be called frame rails, but is actually called the track frame.
When someone talks about worn rails, they probably mean that the track links are worn down from the rollers riding on them, as well as other factors.
I can't blow your pics up enough to tell, but it looks like the track adjusters are pretty far out. If so, the crawler is due for pins and bushings.
Lavoy

[Tigerhaze]

Hi Jason-

Look at the following link for track wear measurements on a 1010- they are on the website referenced in the post:

http://www.jdcrawlers.com/messageboard/ ... php?t=1214

There is a lot of information on this site about the pros/cons of 1010s- one of the big drawbacks (like my 2010) is lack of availability of some parts- especially undercarriage parts like sprockets. Some parts (like for the engine) are Deere only. I think I also saw Jdemaris mention recently that the 1010 gas crawlers were underpowered as loaders (but adequate as dozers). if you do a search for "1010" on this board you will find some posts discussing these pros/cons.

With regards to your tree pushing question, check out a recent thread we discussed on the 1010:

http://www.jdcrawlers.com/messageboard/ ... =1010+tree

This also talked about other 1010 issues.

Have you lived in Warrenton long? I am originally from that area and know a few people currently in Warrenton and south near Marthasville (of course Warrenton has grown leaps and bounds from suburban sprawl in the last 5 years or so).

BTW, send your blackberry bushes to me. They are really thorny, but there is nothing better in the summer than fresh blackberry cobbler.

[Jason Z in MO]

Tiger,

Thanks for the info. I called the guy and explained the rail / pin wear measurement. He measured them to be 25 5/8". Per the site you reference, this is beyond 100% wear; not good I assume. He did say the idlers are not fully extended. I assume if you run the chain beyond the 23.5" limit it will cause additional wear to the sprockets. I asked about the sprockets and the tips measure around 1/4" to 3/8" so the sprockets sounds decent. He did comment again about how tight the loader pins and bushing are. I assume they have been rebuilt at some time.

Not sure what to do at this point. Reading quite a bit lately and have thought about looking for a dozer like you mentioned. I initially thought the loader would do the work of a dozer as well. I already have a bobcat and a couple of farm tractors with loaders for hay work.

I have a small farm on the north side of I-70 about a mile east of the Flying J truck stop. Thats why I jokingly call my place the Flying Z and the fact that I'm building a plane... to be completed some day... I'm actually the president if the Warren County Old Threshers Assn. Not a big group but with lots of tractors and a couple of steam engines. We do have a Clark Airborne CA-1 and an old Cletrac, model 10 comes to mind. I have been here for about 13 years now. Not long but have met a lot of people in the area. The growth as been on the south side of I-70 which hasn't bothered me a bit!

Blackberrys... they are getting out of control! We pick a bunch and the wife makes a great cobbler! Your welcome to come pick this summer if you want! I'm won't be taking them all out but it would be nice to build lanes between the bushes so they can be picked!

My brother has a firewood and lumber business near Marthasville at the corner of T, TT, and D. An old log cabin sites on the corner of his property.

Thanks again for your suggestions and help.

Jason

[Gil]

If you have a wheel tractor that can serve for your loader, I would recommend you consider getting a bulldozer. You will never get the control with a loader in pushing a path or leveling a plot that you will with the dozer. And the ability to backdrag to smooth out the surface is a major advantage.

On the other hand, if you would like to send me the money you planned to spend on a crawler, I will send you a herd of my Boer goats. They would love to help you with the berry bushes.

[Randynscottsboro]

Gil, that goat trade sounds like a fair deal to me. Are any of them purty ones?
Randy

[Tigerhaze]

Tiger,

Thanks for the info. I called the guy and explained the rail / pin wear measurement. He measured them to be 25 5/8". Per the site you reference, this is beyond 100% wear; not good I assume. He did say the idlers are not fully extended. I assume if you run the chain beyond the 23.5" limit it will cause additional wear to the sprockets. I asked about the sprockets and the tips measure around 1/4" to 3/8" so the sprockets sounds decent. He did comment again about how tight the loader pins and bushing are. I assume they have been rebuilt at some time.

I would take the measurements he made with a little bit of skepticism, unless you know how he measured it. For instance, do you know if he included the master link in the measurement? (it shouldn't be). I would guess that it is still pretty worn. Realize that the measurement is for internal wear- the track bushings may look "tight" on the outside. I have some NOS (new old stock) sprockets at my storage unit so I can measure and tell you by next week how wide the teeth are new. However 1/4" isn't all that wide compared to new.

I have learned a lot from my 2010's heavily worn undercarriage (my early 2010 has the exact same rails, pins and bushings, and pads as yours would). You can get quite a bit of use out of a heavily worn undercarriage for periodic farm use- I have put a couple hundered hours or so on it since I bought it and still haven't destroyed it. However I have noticed that wear is accelerating greatly as I use it more and more.

I would look for the following indicators of wear:

-Condition and height of rails (tracks)- These are one of the components that are obselete- heights are on the wear tables.
-Wear on track bushings (are they round or are they becoming egg-shaped)?
-Height between pin bosses and bottom rollers- If the rollers are hitting the pin bosses (the outer protection for the track pins), then rollers and/or rails are excessively worn
-Condition of bottom rollers- are the flanges cracked or thin on both sides?
-Sprocket condition- Not just the tooth thickness, but also wear of pocket between teeth, welds, cracked teeth, etc.
-Wear of pads in relation to the pad mounting bolts (although they are replaceable, I am rounding the heads of my pad mounting bolts right now)
-Does the undercarriage stay "on track" when moving or does it try to "jump" the idlers or sprockets, especially when turning?
-Does the hydraulic adjusters leak down or look like they do?
-Also distance of front idler bracket to end of trackframe (remaining travel).

There are other things that could be inspected but would require jacking up the crawler and loosening the track- you may be able to use the front bucket to help inspect underneath. I wish I would have known more about this before I bought my 2010- it could help in price negotiations.

Remember, some undercarriage items are available and replaceable (rollers, top idlers, pads). The obselete parts that aren't manufactured new anymore (that I am aware of) are the sprockets, front idler, and rails. Pins and bushings are scarce. However if for occasional use you may never need to replace them.

Not sure what to do at this point. Reading quite a bit lately and have thought about looking for a dozer like you mentioned. I initially thought the loader would do the work of a dozer as well. I already have a bobcat and a couple of farm tractors with loaders for hay work.

I'm not suggesting that a crawler loader wouldn't work for you- in fact if you are wanting to take down trees on a regular basis then you probably want one instead of a dozer because you can reach up and get leverage as well as dig around roots. if you are going to make deeper excavations, a loader is going to work better than a dozer. You would be amazed how much easier it is to dig holes with a crawler loader than a wheel tractor with a loader. I have also found it handy for picking up heavy items that my neighbors JD 4010 wheel tractor/loader can't pick up.

The dozers work better for grading and pushing dirt and their undercarriage tends to last longer (less weight on them), but I have done a decent job rough grading with my loader. You can go into the last link and see some of the grading I have done. For fine grading, you could always use your wheel tractor and a 3-point blade (which is what I do). I think you need to assess how often you would be dozing/grading versus other tasks where a loader could come in handy.

I have a small farm on the north side of I-70 about a mile east of the Flying J truck stop. Thats why I jokingly call my place the Flying Z and the fact that I'm building a plane... to be completed some day... I'm actually the president if the Warren County Old Threshers Assn. Not a big group but with lots of tractors and a couple of steam engines. We do have a Clark Airborne CA-1 and an old Cletrac, model 10 comes to mind. I have been here for about 13 years now. Not long but have met a lot of people in the area. The growth as been on the south side of I-70 which hasn't bothered me a bit!

Blackberrys... they are getting out of control! We pick a bunch and the wife makes a great cobbler! Your welcome to come pick this summer if you want! I'm won't be taking them all out but it would be nice to build lanes between the bushes so they can be picked!

My brother has a firewood and lumber business near Marthasville at the corner of T, TT, and D. An old log cabin sites on the corner of his property.

Thanks again for your suggestions and help.

Jason

You're west of Warrenton which seems to help with the growth which is mostly east and south. I'm sure the people I know near Marthasville would know your brother- they actually live closer to Concord Hill but know everyone around that area. See if he knows the Uletts if you get a chance sometime.

The town near my farm (Adrian) has a large steam show every summer- the Western Missouri Antique Tractor and Machinery Association puts it on. I don't know if you have heard of it, but it has impressed me considering the size of the town- collectors come from all over the Midwest.

http://www.wmatma.com/page2.html

[Jason Z in MO]

Thanks for all the suggestions. Exactly what I was looking for.

The top two questions on these forums are also the most subjective. "What to look for when buying a..." and "How much is it worth". The problem I had when searching to find my answers is I didn't know enough a few days ago to even know what the correct terms to search for. Thank you all for your patience.

Good point about how the measurement was taken. I forgot to tell him to not include the master and this was mentioned on the reference page. So now that I know NOT to include the master... how do I identify the master link?!

The web sites you provided don't list the 1010 track link height. The oldest crawler they list is a 350. I'll do some specific searches of "1010 link measurement" and see what I can find. I'm planning to look at it tomorrow as long as we don't get snow.

Thanks for the pictures of your grading and tree removal. Looks like you are building a good crown on the road.

Gil, I can see uses for both machines and the fact that I have a loader already the dozer would be the logical choice. I need to evaluate my uses. I'm sure it's possible but is it practical to remove the loader and install a dozer blade on a single crawler?

I did have a couple of goats here once, not interested in a herd for sure! What I can't get over is how they will eat a blackberry bush thorns and all!

I will have to ask my brother about the Ulett's I'm sure they know each other. Like your friends my brother remembers everyone. A good friend of mine grew up in the hills near Treloar. Another lives on Dry Fork Rd. Small world!

[Gil]

This is a picture of my JD440IC bulldozer pushing out multiflora rose bushes.


And this is a picture of my goats doing the same thing.

[Tigerhaze]

Hi Jason-

I forgot they didn't list the link height I believe for the 1010s/early 2010s it is 3" high(new), measured from the bottom face of the pad to the top of the link. Lavoy or others can probably confirm that for us.

The master link has a small dimple on the face of the pin and a rectangular head. It should have a c-clip holding the pin in place but sometimes they are missing. In some cases the master pin is actually welded to the link, if people had problems holding it in. You just have to look sort of carefully to see which pin doesn't look like the others. Also, when measuring the track should be taught- if not tight you can put a breaker bar in it and push.

My place is adjacent to a creek and I get a lot of runoff from the adjacent corn/bean field. I am having to crown to get runoff to drain quickly. I have been fortunate to have been ther eduring 100 year+ storm events so I have seen how much runoff actually occurs and design for it.

I don't have firsthand knowledge, but my understanding is that it would be pretty difficult to switch back and forth between a loader and crawler. For instance, the loader (at least on my 2010) is run off a Cessna pump at the rear of the machine (where the PTO would be). Not sure if it is for the dozer. I believe some of the hydraulic plumbing is different, and then there is the issue of the attachment brackets for the dozer. In addition, the dozer has more aggressive pads (grousers) than the loader- if you were to use the grousers on the loader you would put a lot of strain on the drivetrain. There is a detachable dozer blade for loaders- they are pretty uncommon but in fact there is a post on here for an auction in the spring for one of these crawlers. You may want to find that post- it was within the last two weeks.

Let us know if you have any more questions-we don't mind.