Help! 2-53 problem

[whiteclipse16]

Upon receiving my clutch setting tool friday from lavoy I began to set my clutch. I couldn't get to the last finger to adjust it so I went to roll the engine and this is where the problem began.
Up to this point I was able to turn the engine by hand by using the flywheel. This wasn't the case this time. So I put a pipe wrench on the output shaft and still couldn't turn it. I had to get a pipe to finally turn it.
My dad suggested that the rings may have been stuck and were now letting loose.
Long story short I decided to pull the head and pistons this morning and with pistons out and head off I still need the pipe and pipe wrench to turn the crank.
This can't be right.
The only thing I did to the motor was flipped it back on the flywheel in order to drill a broken oil pan bolt. I have no idea what might have happened.
So what are you guy's thoughts? Could something have happened in the front cover with the oil pump? I'm stumped.

[DukeofDeere]

Did you have the oil pan off too?
I'm thinking some sediment got into where you don't want it to be or a tight bearing.
Sounds like time to open it up and find what is tight.

Just my thoughts.
Duke

[jtrichard]

i agree with Duke pull it down and check every thing and if you dont already know when you put the pistons back in they have to go in from the bottom of the clys.

[whiteclipse16]

Well I kinda took you guy's advice. The first thing I did was slightly loosen the main bearing cap bolts and tried the crank, there was no change.
My next thought was that something happened with the oil pump so I pulled the front cover and tried the crank and no change.
As I was staring at the flywheel dreading pulling it off to get to the cam and balance shaft gears I remembered something I did. I had installed the 4 studs that hold the bell housing on. 1 of those studs I had made, so as a long shot I removed that stud and tada it spins like it's brand new. I only had to shave 1 thread off that stud and it's fine. The odd part is the stud screws into a blind hole, so the stud never even contacted anything, but must have swollen the hole just enough to rub something.
I would've never imagine, but all the tear down paid off because upon removing the piston, I found each one had 2 rings stuck. So they are sitting in some diesel soaking now, 1 ring already loosened up.
I'm going to clean the head up, clean everything else and put a new front oil seal in and assemble everything. I'm in a much better mood tonight haha.
Thanks for the suggestions guys.

[DukeofDeere]

Been there done that one.
Flywheel bolt just a touch too long....
Glad to hear you are winning.

Happy wrenching.
Duke

[440 iron popper]

Hi Ben,

I'm glad that engine is free to spin! Was the engine in running condition before the teardown?

[whiteclipse16]

Hey ironpopper,
Yes the motor was running before the teardown but I guess 20+ years of sitting was enough to make the rings stick. It still had plenty of oil in it when I pulled it out of the barn when the project began. Everything in the motor looks good, my grandpa said it was freshly rebuilt before he tore it apart. You can tell it was because it was painted a blue/grey color (GM I assume).
I got the front cover back on with a new front crank seal. Pistons are ready to go in and will prob. go in this coming week. I'm going to pull the exhaust valves and and give them and the ports a good cleaning and have the injectors checked out.

The problem with the motor before the teardown (20+ years ago) was that it would randomly start to run away. The ideas are: bad injector, something with the fuel rail, or bad blower seals.
I'm leaning toward injector since the issue was completely random.

How's your project coming?

[440 iron popper]

Hi Ben,

For shure 20 years + of sitting, changes of seasons, moisture and that sort of things are hard on mechanical stuff! I Hope you can put it back at work without big issues.

About the overspeed problem my guess would be the governor. A loose linkage or a internal problem that cause the rack to go full fuel when it's unwanted. The injectors spray according to the command of the governor. I saw several cases of engines that ran away bad. When it reaches the point you can't stop it, usually A connecting rod does the weed eater inside the block. When it finaly stops you can see through the block by a hole that was not in the original design . Scary on 2-3000 HP engines...

About my project (s), everything is in standby mode for now because of the problems I have with the house. I wish that the crawler was ready so I could level this pile of **it. I plan to work on the engine and transmission in a near future... Anyway, I enjoy other's projects pictures on this site. That's all I can do for now.

Keep pics coming on the show and tell!

IronPopper

[CELSESSER]

I understand that the technique for putting the piston into the sleave on a detriot diesel requires a special ring compressor. Broken rings result if not done correctly.

[whiteclipse16]

Does anybody have a way to measure the depth of a factory 2-53 oil pan.
The bottom was rusted bad in mine so I put a new bottom in it. I found that the oil pick up was bent, so I straightened it but whey I went to put the pan on, it hits the sump before being seated on the block.
The oil pan currently measures 3" in depth, and the sump measures 3 1/2" down from the block.
Hopefully someone can help, thanks.

[pop pop]

hi Ben, well i had the pan off 3 times since november , i wish the question could have been asked sooner? haha, well, i will go check it since i have only 2 bolts holding it on. might not have to take it off.

[JD440ICD2006]

Glad you found the problem and it was only a bolt thread binding, not something more serious and costly.
Much debate about how to load pistons in to a GM. The "correct" way per the service manual is from the top using a piston loader that is basiacally a liner that has been cut in the shape of a funnel.
I am certain folks have loaded them from the bottom. The issue is that the oil ring expanders will break with the least bit of twist. Many times you are not going to know that they are broken after you load the piston. The only way to know before running the engine is to pull the pistons back out and inspect.
I am posting only becasue I went through several sets of oil rings before taking mine to DD and letting them load them properly with the piston loader, and without breaking the ring expanders.
Good luck!

[whiteclipse16]

Thanks for the help and advice guys.
I hope to get this motor all buttoned back up soon. The head is almost ready to be put back on, just have to finish up the exhaust valves on one cylinder.
Update on the injectors: N35 and S35 are both $89 each from the DD dealer near me.

How can you tell if the motor has N series pistons and/or injectors. The dealer tole me there should be an S or N on the injector label but there is nothing. They just say "reliabuilt" I think and "35" under that.

[JD440ICD2006]

If the pistons are still out, take a piston and an injector to that DD dealer near you and they should be able to tell by numbers on them.
The injectors should have a "button" label that states the MM and the series. You do not want to mix them, and for sure you do not want one type on one cylinder, and another type on the other cyllinder.
Good luck!

[whiteclipse16]

I see that "button" label and it's very clear to read. Says "35" very large in the center so they are in fact 35mm, but the only other thing on them is "reliabuilt" across the very top of the label in very small text.
I put the head on last night, after I got the valves lapped in, and am going to pull the injectors and send them to the DD dealer to have them checked along with the governor assembly.
The dealer told me how to check the injectors but I can't get it to work. He said pour the fuel inlet port on the injector full of fuel. Then push the plunger to full throttle position. Then tap the spring assembly (not sure what you'd call it, part the rocker arm actuates) with a hammer and it should mist fuel.

I don't know if I'm not getting enough fuel in there or what but it just pushes it out the opposite line (return). It did spray a time or two but nothing consistent.

Another fyi, the studs the book says to use for installing the head are def. a must. That head is so heavy there is no way you could get that head on right without them. Luckily we have a lathe and made them, worked perfect.