350D for sale on ebay

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Johnstone
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350D for sale on ebay

Post by Johnstone » Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:56 pm

Hi, I'm new to this board. I've been thinking about getting a dozer and this little John Deere seems to be just what I need to play in the dirt on my property.It would be great if some of you guys with some knowledge of these tractors could give me their opinion about this tractor.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/110932304131?ss ... 1423.l2649
Thanks...John
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Tigerhaze
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Post by Tigerhaze » Wed Aug 15, 2012 9:36 am

Good morning John, and welcome to the board-

There are a lot of people on this board very experienced with 350s, including Deere mechanics, so I will give my $0.02 but otheers will probably have better answers.

First thing, are you thinking of buying this remotely without an in-person inspection? That is taking a chance, especially from Ebay, on something this expensive because you can't often see all the issues from a few photos and I couldn't find the YouTube video the ad says is there. If you are serious about this, I would recommend taking a trip to see it with someone that is familiar with JD 350 crawlers.

Having said that, I can tell you from looking at the photos that a new coat of paint was recently put on the machine. That is usually a red flag as "paint restoration" often hides issues and is meant to draw attention from other issues. However I don't judge solely on that.

The initial concern I can see is the undercarriage. It is not easy to see the condition of the undercarriage entirely, but the track rails on the right side look really thin and the bottom rollers on the left side appear to be pretty worn and potentially hitting the pin bosses. Roller costs add up if all 10 need replacement, and since they wear as a set they probably all do. My concern would be that undercarriage functions as a unit, so also what condition is the top and front idlers that weren't replaced? I can't see that well in the photos.

If you are going to use this machine a lot, I would be concerned about the tracks as the rails seem thin. While pin and bushing turns restore pitch, they don't affect snaking of the track if present and do no good if the rails wear out on you. New tracks if available can be several thousand dollars. You can read opinions about pin and bushing turns here:

http://www.jdcrawlers.com/messageboard/ ... shing+turn

http://www.jdcrawlers.com/messageboard/ ... 74&start=0

http://www.jdcrawlers.com/messageboard/ ... shing+turn

It's not to say that $10K is a bad price if those are the only issues this crawler has, but what I have seen is probably another $1K to $2K in parts, potentially another couple $K if the rails wear out, and what else is wrong that you can't see from the photos such as engine condition, reverser condition, and steering clutches condition? Hence my recommendation of seeing it in person with someone knowledgable about the 350Ds. At least then you can do some rail height measurements and check out the roller wear. Not trying to badger you on this, but I was in your shoes a couple of years ago and when you are new to crawlers there is a tendancy to overlook issues.

Let's see what others notice that I didn't see :|
(1) JD Straight 450 crawler dozer with manual outside blade; (2) JD 2010 diesel crawler loaders; (1) JD 2010 diesel dozer with hydraulic 6-way blade; (2) Model 50 backhoe attachments, misc. other construction equipment

vestor_guy
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Post by vestor_guy » Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:58 am

This is another 350D that was sold for $16 with new undercarriage.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... true&rt=nc

As for paint, you could probably expect the tractor to have been painted but I would not claim that it was to cover other problems.

The youtube video looks good and I did not see any obvious problems.
The blade has had an extension addet to the top. As for the undercarriage, it would appear that pins and bushings would have been replaced once and then rotated. You shold get up to about 1000 hours on this rotation depending upon what conditions you intend to use the tractor. He has it for a buy it now so if you want it, go look at it with someone who knows JD tractors and if it is what they claim, it is a decent price.

The below tractor is also another 350 for sale that is a decent price.

http://www.genemco.com/catalog/pdf/WCTF ... ldozer.pdf

It is a JD "relife" tractor where a new engine was installed, new total undercarriage, final drives and other items. This is a site that describes what was done during the relife.


http://www.roscommonequipmentcenter.com ... es/nn6.pdf
that tractor is in Texas and was sold by the dept of conservation. The new owner wants $12,000 for it.

Johnstone
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Post by Johnstone » Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:31 am

Thanks for the good advice. Yes I would definitely go to check out the tractor before I shell out $10k...in a perfect world I would also have an experienced 350 guy go with me but as it stands now Iam on my own.
I have been reading about undercarriage wear on this site and here is what Iam planning on checking:
1. track link wear over 4 links: 23"new....23.57" 100% worn
2.track link height: 3.18" new.....2.95" 100% worn
Tigerhaze, what are you referring to when you say the rails are really thin? Is this the same measurement as the track link height? I am assuming the track links and the rails are the same thing.
3. bottom rollers,....where does the wear show up? When the bottom rollers are hitting the pin bsses, is this sign of roller wear, rail height wear or both?
4.front idler and top roller....what do I look for here?
So lets see if I got this right, when it comes to the undercarriage of this 350D, here's what we have: new sprockets;pins and bushings replaced once and then rotated;rails,bottom rollers,front idler,and top idler are original.
This tractor has 4214 hours. On average, how long would an undercarriage last on one of these tractors before it would be totally wore out?
Sorry for all the questions.....thanks for all the help.

John
John Deere 950
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JD440ICD2006
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Post by JD440ICD2006 » Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:53 am

John,

I know very little about JD 350's but have been around tractors and equipment all of my life. NEVER rely on a tach reading unless you owned it from day one. Tach cables break, run for many hours and then maybe get replaced.
Also, not just hours on a crawler, but like any equipment, the skill (or lack of) with the operators that ran it, what it was used for, etc., contribute to longer life or premature failures.
You have to see it, start it from dead cold, run it, push with it. I always recommend about 20 -30 minutes of pushing minimum. This gives everything time to get to operating temp. Heat changes things on these, aside from the wear point of the undercarriage.
No, you are not buying a "new" crawler, but the buyer desreves to know exactly what they are buying.
A new coat of paint is a bad sign 90% of the time. ONLY if the seller has actually mechnically restored it is it worthy of new paint.
Last edited by JD440ICD2006 on Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
1959 JD 440ICD w/64 Power Angle Tilt Blade
1959 JD 440ICD w/63 Manual Angle Blade
1959 JD 440IC w/602 Manual Angle Blade
1959 JD 730D W SE (many options)
1950 JD M S w/M-20 Mower
1952 JD M W
1955 FORD 640 (burns the most fuel)

vestor_guy
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Post by vestor_guy » Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:02 am

John, you have the track check down pretty well. Yes, rails getting thin is chain height.

For roller wear, look for oil leaks. On a dozer, the rear roller is the one most likely to fail, on a loader, the front ones. For wear, look at the thickness of the guides on the roller edges.

As for chains, they can last about two sets of pins and bushings and on the average, a set of pins and bushings last about 3,000 hours. In sand or sandy soil, a lot less.

IMO, you are usually better off buying something good than attempting to fix up something that is worn out.

Look at that deere "relife" link I posted and check what they replace to fix them up. Those would be the high wear items.

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Tigerhaze
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Post by Tigerhaze » Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:15 am

Hi John-

The degree that you need to worry about the undercarriage wear depends on how and how often you will use the crawler. Even with severly worn undercarriage, it can last many years without fatal damage if you use only ocassionally (such as on a farm) in mild ground conditions. If you plan to use daily or in severe conditions such as rocky ground it can catch up to you pretty quick. I have noticed that with my undercarriage, the more worn it is the quicker the remaining metal wears on it. Having said that, I am operating my 2010 loader with a small chunk missing out of my sprocket and completely worn track pads- but I am basically running it to destruction. I have been oeprating it that way since I bought it (2006) and still working although I have to deal with slipped tracks all the time.

The 450C you are looking at isn't near as bad. I tend to be hard on judgment of undercarrige, primarily because I wasn't when I bought my 2010 and many of my issues/downtime have revolved around it. I just didn't want you to get the impression that by having the pins and bushings turned, it completely restored the undercarriage. Since undercarriage wears as a set, worn parts can damage new parts. This should be factored into the price.

I am basing the rail height and roller concern on one photo, and the main issue is that as the rail (link) gets thinner, along with the bottom roller surfaces, the roller flanges can hit the pin bosses which is not good long-term. If too thin, I have seen a few actually break but the 350D isn't close to that problem.

Since photos can be miselading on undercarriage, best to inspect in person and see how worn those other undercarriage parts really are- if you are not sure what to look for, this thread has links to some really good information:

http://www.jdcrawlers.com/messageboard/ ... inspection
(1) JD Straight 450 crawler dozer with manual outside blade; (2) JD 2010 diesel crawler loaders; (1) JD 2010 diesel dozer with hydraulic 6-way blade; (2) Model 50 backhoe attachments, misc. other construction equipment

vestor_guy
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Post by vestor_guy » Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:13 am

I disagree about runing junk undercarriage regardless of how much you use the tractor. It does not take much to slip a track off and you have a mess.

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JD440ICD2006
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Post by JD440ICD2006 » Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:14 pm

I agree also about not running junk U/C's unless you have all of the proper lift equipment and time to put tracks back on.
The other point that was brought out, simply replacing worn sprokets or other single parts is almost worse than leaving it. Many of the U/C parts mesh togher so that if one is newer and the other is worn, it just creates more wear.
Example: new sprokets turning chains with worn out pins and bushings. The bushings will not fit in the sprockets as they should but will wear their way in there, which ruins new sprokets.
I still get tickled when sellers put descriptions in their ads for crawlers like "clean". LOL That is the least of your concerns and nothing a good pressure washer or steam cleaner, and some paint would not fix!
Not many people bought a new crawler as a garage queen for sure.
1959 JD 440ICD w/64 Power Angle Tilt Blade
1959 JD 440ICD w/63 Manual Angle Blade
1959 JD 440IC w/602 Manual Angle Blade
1959 JD 730D W SE (many options)
1950 JD M S w/M-20 Mower
1952 JD M W
1955 FORD 640 (burns the most fuel)

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Tigerhaze
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Post by Tigerhaze » Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:46 am

vestor_guy wrote:I disagree about runing junk undercarriage regardless of how much you use the tractor. It does not take much to slip a track off and you have a mess.
I certainly agree it isn't preferable, but new undercarriage isn't an option for everyone. I agree it doesn't take much to slip a track- unfortunately I have photos on this site proving it :lol:

I just meant many people run with worn out undercarriage and can get by, especially if crawler isn't going to be used often and hard. If used to lift things that is a lot less hard on undercarriage than a lot of turning or digging.
(1) JD Straight 450 crawler dozer with manual outside blade; (2) JD 2010 diesel crawler loaders; (1) JD 2010 diesel dozer with hydraulic 6-way blade; (2) Model 50 backhoe attachments, misc. other construction equipment

vestor_guy
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Post by vestor_guy » Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:25 am

I have thrown tracks before also and it is a pain but this discussion is not relative to the 350 listed on ebay because, IMO, it still have a decent amount of time on the undercarriage for his intended use.

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JD440ICD2006
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Post by JD440ICD2006 » Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:08 pm

If the buyer just wants to "play in the dirt" and knows what they are doing with crawlers, it would be OK. But not at that price.
Look at the track adjusters and how far out they are.
Deep grousers have a way of making a U/C look better than it really is.
And yes, U/C's are serious money as things go past rated wear points.
Just because the bucket goes up and down and the crawler will move under it's own power does not mean it is not a pile of junk making noise.
1959 JD 440ICD w/64 Power Angle Tilt Blade
1959 JD 440ICD w/63 Manual Angle Blade
1959 JD 440IC w/602 Manual Angle Blade
1959 JD 730D W SE (many options)
1950 JD M S w/M-20 Mower
1952 JD M W
1955 FORD 640 (burns the most fuel)

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LeonardL
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Post by LeonardL » Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:23 am

Okay,
I wasn't going to enter my dog in this hunt but I guess old habits are hard to break! :D
I'm not going to go into detail about everything that has already been brought out. I will mention a thing or two that really jump out at me without being there to see it first hand.
To start with I give this machine a "Fair" rating. The under carriage being the really big issue.
The next thing is the cutting edge and corner bits on the blade. "JUNK!!! There is a big chunk gone out of the left end of the cutting edge and the corners are meager at best. So new cutting edges!
The side panels are gone off of the engine compartment and that is a disaster waiting to happen. Some will say what is the big deal!?!? Well if you happen to catch a limp or a stump or big root wad and you get it between your lift towers and the injector pump, guess what is going to get damaged! The injector pump. Not cheap when you consider how much a little piece of flat metal would cost in comparison. On the other side of the machine is your oil filter, fuel transfer pump, fuel filter, starter, alternator and your wiring harness. All expensive items that need that panel to protect them. Maybe the seller has these, I don't know but they need to be there.
I would be willing to bet that this machine, aside from being re-painted somewhere along the way, is original. Under carriage wear and track pads being the biggest indicator.
Personally I would want to see the machine up close so I could check the underneath side of the machine. All the things that photos hide. From the video, the machine sounds pretty good and looks to operate well enough. But what does the engine really look like? Water pump, radiator, air cleaner and other hidden things that need to be looked at.
Just from the appearance of what I can see, this is a 8K machine at best. If everything was okay, undercarriage, the cutting edge and side panels in place, maybe even a set of sweeps to help protect the exhaust. Then maybe 10K. But that would be a stretch! :D
40 plus years working on JD 350s, 400Gs, 450s and other equipment both Ag and Construction.

Johnstone
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On site inspection

Post by Johnstone » Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:18 am

I went to see the 350D dozer yesterday...It was about 70 miles from my home.After walking around the tractor, I could see it had a hard life..lots of rust and corroision all over. The rails were way over 100% worn, the front idlers was worn out and the track adjusters were corroded and pitted. At this point I had pretty much lost intrest.
The blade was off the tractor...the guy said he had sent it to a fab shop for a new skin and then he was going to put new edges on it.
I started and ran the tractor and the engine sounded ok and the steering worked fine.
The guy who was selling the machine has a yard full of old equiptment...mostly John Deere. Looks like he picks up old equiptment and fixes them up and sells them. He was a very likable guy and seemed to be honest enough.
I told him that I was looking for something in better shape and would keep looking. On the way home I stopped to look at a Cat D3B that was for sale for 16K. It was an '83 but was also in poor condition.
Well I guess I will keep looking....Thanks to all the guys that gave me their advice and imput. This has been a learning experience for me.

John
John Deere 950
Cat D47U

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JD440ICD2006
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Post by JD440ICD2006 » Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:01 am

John,

If the measure of honesty of a man was how nice he was, no man would be deemed dishonest.
I have found that for the most part, the nicer they seem, the bigger crooks they really are.
"Nice" is a learned art after many years of screwing people and looking them in the eye as if you are being truthful.
1959 JD 440ICD w/64 Power Angle Tilt Blade
1959 JD 440ICD w/63 Manual Angle Blade
1959 JD 440IC w/602 Manual Angle Blade
1959 JD 730D W SE (many options)
1950 JD M S w/M-20 Mower
1952 JD M W
1955 FORD 640 (burns the most fuel)

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