440 ic rails, sprockets etc

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bob lavoie
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440 ic rails, sprockets etc

Post by bob lavoie » Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:36 am

Upon doing more research and reading countless post on here I have pretty much come to the conclusion that my rails and sprockets are trash, front wheels are ok, and chain needs pins and bushings. Please see pics and chime in.

Image

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Couple other things I have noticed
1) mixture screw is all the way in on carb, if you start to back it out the idle gets crazy and starts back firing out exhaust.
2) govenor seems to work properly, all linkage moves as it should, changes rpm based on load, however the throttle level doesn't really seem to do much..... Maybe 200 rpm change.
3) intake pipe just above carb is ice cold and sweating.

Any thoughts / feedback?
Bob Lavoie
1959 440 ic

whiteclipse16
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Post by whiteclipse16 » Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:00 am

Well I actually hope your somewhat wrong on the "trashed" part about the undercarriage.
My sprockets were much worse and my frame was wore as yours is up at the front idler.
I bought good sprockets and built the track frame up with weld.
However my rails are much worse than yours. I was told I have new pins and bushings and that may be true because my adjuster isn't out nearly as far as yours and I didn't have much "snake" effect when I had the tracks off.
Ben

Great Grandpa's 1960 440ICD 602 blade
Between SN's: 455,633 - 456,801
Currently Rebuilding/Restoring

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DukeofDeere
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Post by DukeofDeere » Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:00 am

Carb may be due for a rebuild.
Governor and or linkage is out of adjustment.
Go to your service manual under governor and check yours per their spec.
Make sure the linkage from the front speed control lever is not binding.

Duke

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jtrichard
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Post by jtrichard » Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:12 am

can you get a pic or 2 of the bushings?
2010 with 622 dozer with mod. 35 ripper and a 2010 with 622 dozer bought in 1969 and a 2010 loader with drott and mod. 36 ripper

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Lavoy
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Post by Lavoy » Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:21 am

Sprockets are shot, rail height looks great.
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bob lavoie
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Post by bob lavoie » Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:24 pm

Here are 2 pics of the bushings, after what I have read I believe them to be shot. So recommendations on new bushings / finding good used tracks etc.

Image

Image
Bob Lavoie
1959 440 ic

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jtrichard
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Post by jtrichard » Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:44 pm

the bushings are well worn if none are worn through you might be able to still turn them and get a lot of life out of them or if you can afford the new pins and bushings the rest of the tracks look dam good for the age ...if you did turn and could not find sprockets then switch sides and get a little time while you find some better ones
2010 with 622 dozer with mod. 35 ripper and a 2010 with 622 dozer bought in 1969 and a 2010 loader with drott and mod. 36 ripper

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Post by Lavoy » Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:54 pm

Always remember that the external portion of the bushings has nothing to do with track snake or pitch growth, this is all internal, and can not be readily seen. I have see bushings that looked perfect on the outside, but were way past 100% worn. Bushings like yours will be hard on sprockets yes, so never put good sprockets on bushings with that kind of wear.
If you don't want to spend the money to put in new pins and bushings, and are considering turning the pins and bushings, I would recommend replacing the bushings at the time of turning. RIght now, bushings are the cheapest portion of the cost if buying from Deere, seems to me about $600 for a 440. This is not as good a replacing both, but much better than just turning.
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bob lavoie
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Post by bob lavoie » Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:42 pm

To "turn the pins" do I need to press them completely out and then basically press them back in upside down from the way they are on now? When I restore this I am fine with spending the money to do it right. As of right now I close on my new home 4-2 about 2 1/2 weeks from now and need this machine on my property right away. I am not using this for commercial work or on job sites just at my home. I probably wont use it 20 hours at my house before a bring it in to restore it. maybe I could likely just run it like it is for that short of time. none of the bushings are wore through. I have found some good used sprockets. Changing pins and bushings seems like a long tedious pain in the keester!
Bob Lavoie
1959 440 ic

JimAnderson
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440

Post by JimAnderson » Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:57 pm

Bob,
If you only need 20 hours out of the machine short term,run it.From
what I see from the bushing pictures they may be to far gone to turn
now anyway.To repin and bush you really need access to a track press.
The tracks need to come off to get them done and that is the worst of
it,other than the cost of track work and parts.The rails look good and
good two bolt sets are getting harder to find.I'd definitly keep them and have them rebushed down the road.

Luck,JimAnderson

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Post by Lavoy » Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:55 pm

You have the basic idea, but actually you don't turn them 180 degrees, it is less than that. As Jim says, it needs to be done in a track press, not a shop press operation.
If you don't mind spending the money, the question becomes whether you want it original, or functional. Right now, new pins and bushings from Deere, plus installation, and another set of sprocktes are going to be in the neighborhood of converting to new 350 rails, pads, and sprocket rims. This is really a personal choice, just depends on which you would rather have.
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jtrichard
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Post by jtrichard » Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:04 pm

Yes if bushings are $600 by all-means put new ones in its the same labor to just turn the old ones IF they were $2000 i would definitely think how much use i would get with turning :) and if you only need it 20/30 hours RUN IT then pull it down when you have your work done and can take your time
2010 with 622 dozer with mod. 35 ripper and a 2010 with 622 dozer bought in 1969 and a 2010 loader with drott and mod. 36 ripper

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notmeu
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Post by notmeu » Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:22 am

I just went thru the pricing of pins and bushings vs. doing a 350 upgrade. So I can break the pricing down for you. All of the pricing is for a 5 roller 420, so the 440 would be the same. JD sells the pins and bushings in packs of 16 so I needed 5 packs of each to cover 35 links. JD part number for the bushings is T10220 for 8.52 each x 80(16 per pack times 5 packs) =681.60. JD part number for the pins is T10728 for 19.03 each x 80=1522.40. The master pin part number is M2952T at 88.06 each x 2 =176.12. The master pin snap ring part number is M2679T at 3.90 x 2 = 7.80. Grand total just for parts to do both sides, not including tax is 2387.92. If you get someone to rebuild the track(which I would recommend) you are at no less than 400.00 for labor. Grand total you are looking at around 2787.92+tax. I have got multiple quotes for a 350 upgrade that includes new tracks, all new 12" single grouser pads, new nuts and bolts, and new weld on sprocket rims. The cheapest was 3105.50 delivered. 855.00 each for the chain. 14.75 each for the 12" shoes. 150 each for the sprockets rest was nuts and bolts. To me it seems like it's a no brainer to go with the 350 upgrade. But my pads are pretty mutch worn to nothing and my bushings are well overdue turning, everyones situation is different. I hope this helps.
1956 JD420, gearmatic 8a winch, custom 6 way blade and FOPS.

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Paul Buhler
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Post by Paul Buhler » Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:48 am

I just went thru the pricing of pins and bushings vs. doing a 350 upgrade. So I can break the pricing down for you. All of the pricing is for a 5 roller 420, so the 440 would be the same. JD sells the pins and bushings in packs of 16 so I needed 5 packs of each to cover 35 links. JD part number for the bushings is T10220 for 8.52 each x 80(16 per pack times 5 packs) =681.60. JD part number for the pins is T10728 for 19.03 each x 80=1522.40. The master pin part number is M2952T at 88.06 each x 2 =176.12. The master pin snap ring part number is M2679T at 3.90 x 2 = 7.80. Grand total just for parts to do both sides, not including tax is 2387.92. If you get someone to rebuild the track(which I would recommend) you are at no less than 400.00 for labor. Grand total you are looking at around 2787.92+tax. I have got multiple quotes for a 350 upgrade that includes new tracks, all new 12" single grouser pads, new nuts and bolts, and new weld on sprocket rims. The cheapest was 3105.50 delivered. 855.00 each for the chain. 14.75 each for the 12" shoes. 150 each for the sprockets rest was nuts and bolts. To me it seems like it's a no brainer to go with the 350 upgrade. But my pads are pretty mutch worn to nothing and my bushings are well overdue turning, everyones situation is different. I hope this helps.
Nice summary. I found similar JD prices when I did my 420 track rebuild, and finally found an individual that had/has access to aftermarket parts for considerably less money, and I reused the master pins and clips since they were in pretty good shape. He charged me about $400 to do the repin and bush job. It took me over a year to find this person with these resources and a press. I hope you are successful in your search too. Paul
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