Opinions

[77 Ford]

I'm looking for some opinions on my old 450c loader. It's always been hard to start and it's hard to say for sure but it might be getting a little worse. I've also found as I use it more and more I'm getting more comfortable and working it harder. I've notice the engine bog down quite bit and I've even killed it a couple of times.

I was going to replace the injectors, I figure they are 40 years old and not super expensive. However after these latest rounds of post about bad governors and injector pumps I'm wondering if I've got an issue in that area. Is there any trouble shooting I can do to try and narrow it down or should I just stick to my plan and replace the injectors and if that does not fix it move on to bigger and more expensive things?

I've just always equated bad injectors to hard starting and poor performance.


As always, I appreciate any advice you have.

[little1406]

It's time I tried to be helpful on this forum....watch out!

My 450 seemed hard to start until I changed my procedure. Now I open the throttle all the way while cranking and pull it back quickly as the engine starts so as not to race a cold engine. Also, the manual recommends depressing the clutch pedal regardless of HLR lever position while cranking and that does seem to speed it up a bit.

On the bogging down, are you sure your governor is working? The main purpose of governor is to automatically increase fuel delivery as the load on the engine increases. That said, back when the governor on my 450 was working, I could easily stall the engine while pushing a full bucket in 2nd gear LOW into the side of a steep pile. It didn't seem weak to me, just too much for the 57 hp engine.

[77 Ford]

A little update, I was looking over the information on the motor. I know it's a the standard 4219 but I'm not sure how to cross over the pump information. I've tried searching on the forums and I see alot of articles talking about the a, b c models but not how you identify them.

My tag says:

JDB435ALZ442

I830934 (the I maybe be a D or a 1 it's really hard to tell)

It leaks fuel from a cap in the center which looks like a gasket behind it maybe the size of a quarter, not real bad just dripping. Is this something that could be fixed without pulling the whole unit?

Thanks again for any help.

[JRF253]

If you look a little closer at the pump you will see that it says JDB435AL2442 (I know they can get dirty and the marking can wear down).
So you have a D series JDB pump

The John Deere Part number is AR51747

Can you get pictures and post them of the leaking area?

These pumps have a plastic type governor dampener that essentially disintegrates over time. If you do not know if this pump has ever been "rebuilt" or serviced then it may be wise to have this done because the you will eventually get metal flakes and plastic flakes inside the pump that will destroy it (speaking from experience).

As far as the injectors go, you may just want to have them tested rather than replacing them without knowing. If you have any friends that work at a shop, maybe you can get them to do it without a charge.

Also the fuel inlet line where it goes into the head of the unit has a screen that can be removed and cleaned. You could check to see if there is anything in the screen.

Hope this helps.

[rockslayer16]

i just replaced the injectors on my 350c and it runs better then it ever has since i purchased it, more power and it does not smoke anymore. i dont know what condition your injectors are in or if putting new ones in will help your problem, just sharing the experience i had. mine also lacked power and would stall out every now and then under high load conditions, i am VERY happy with my new injectors. it was about 110$ for 3 new ones

[77 Ford]

Let's see if I can get this to link. I circled the area with the leak. It kinda has a gasket looking deal behind the bolt head.

The part number you gave me is actually on the tag AR51747, that said the picture I linked is from a website for a 2802 not a 2442. That said I found this thread that seems to indicate they are interchangeable.

http://www.jdcrawlers.com/messageboard/ ... 1741c1d2ae

[jtrichard]

thats a blead screw if it wont snug up and stop you need a new washer

[LeonardL]

Well.... The bolt circled in the picture is not a bleed screw. Sorry to disagree but there is another bolt just like it on the other side of the pump. These two bolts are what holds the two main parts of the pump together. If one or both are leaking then I would suspect you will need to have a kit put in to your pump. The round block portion of the pump has an O-ring around the end that fits up into the pump housing. It could be just loose and all you need to do is tighten these two bolts. But most likely it is this O-ring that is bad and is where the leak is coming from.

In respect to your questions about your engine. A lot of what has already been said is good stuff. However I would start with some basics that need to be checked before you go doing more than you need to.
On an older machine with several hours on it, I would check the compression of your engine first. It should be in the 300 to 400 PSI range or your engine will be hard to start. Diesel engines fire off of compression and if it is low then hard starting is an issue. Also your starter and battery system should be checked for peak performance. These older Deere engines require a good starter to get them going. I haven't had much experience with the gear reduction starters but the ones I have been around are great. They give the Deere engine a good "Whip" in cranking and that is just what they need. I've never had to use Ether on these engines with a gear reduction starter. And anything that will keep you from using Ether is a good thing. I hate Ether!!! I know it is a necessary evil. And sometimes it has to be used. But I still hate the stuff. It is an engine killer!!
If you do have your compression checked then you can also have the injectors checked at the same time for proper function. They will have to be removed for the compression check anyway and it is a good time then to have them checked. Injectors are not like spark plugs in that they should be routinely changed. My experience has always been if it aint broke don't fix it! If you have reason to believe your injectors are bad such as a miss or lots of smoke or your eyes are burning from the fumes then maybe check into them. But if they are firing and everything is functioning well, then I would leave them alone.
Another simple place to look for loss of power is in the air intake system. A dirty filter or some other restriction can cause power issues. Mice / Rodents love to cram air intakes full of stuff and this will cause a restriction in the air flow.
Another power issue is track adjustment. If you are running you track too tight then you get what is known as track strain. This is simply a binding of the track components that your engine has to over come before it can do anything else. Proper track adjustment is critical for proper power out of the engine.
I hope this helps a little... It's my two cents worth and good luck!