MC Low / No oil pressure
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- 40C crawler
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:00 pm
- Location: East Texas
MC Low / No oil pressure
Just purchased a 1952 MC that someone had started restoring. Supposedly the engine was gone through but Nephew to that person did not know how complete the overhaul was. Problem started when Nephew brought the Crawler home and started using it. He said he heard it "chirp" and shut it down. Long story short...he tried it again and kept an eye on the oil pressure gauge with little or no pressure evident. This time pan was pulled and rod bearing damage noted. He lost interest in the project and I purchased and brought it home yesterday.
I am no stranger to engine assembly being that I've drag raced for the last 30 years...but I'm new to tractors. My question is...is this a common issue with the MC's? Anything in particular that I'm looking for... such as bad oil pump, galley plug missing or the obvious (to me) ground crankshaft with standard bearings. I suspect this is going to be a "bone head" mistake by previous assembler . Any suggestions appreciated. Thanks...BBJ
I am no stranger to engine assembly being that I've drag raced for the last 30 years...but I'm new to tractors. My question is...is this a common issue with the MC's? Anything in particular that I'm looking for... such as bad oil pump, galley plug missing or the obvious (to me) ground crankshaft with standard bearings. I suspect this is going to be a "bone head" mistake by previous assembler . Any suggestions appreciated. Thanks...BBJ
1952 John Deere MC, 1960 John Deere 4010 turbo'd diesel
- DukeofDeere
- 1010 crawler
- Posts: 443
- Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:12 am
- Location: Hudsonville Michigan
I second the rebuild sentiment, no real known problems as far as oil pressure on these engines.
I stock some of the engine parts, but all are readily available. Check your bore, you will likely find it is quite tapered. Have the head magnafluxed, they are prone to cracking.
Lavoy
I stock some of the engine parts, but all are readily available. Check your bore, you will likely find it is quite tapered. Have the head magnafluxed, they are prone to cracking.
Lavoy
Parts and restoration for antique and late model John Deere crawlers.
Owner and moderator www.jdcrawlers.com
Owner and moderator www.jdcrawlers.com
mc low oil pressure
Sounds like its due for a overhaul.
My uncle bought a G tractor that kept throwing the flywheel off, Finally when we got the flywheel to stay on, you could hear the knock. We finally traced it to the pot metal collar on the oil pump had broken so the oil pump wasn't turning/producing pressure. I had figgured it was due to water in the crankcase(drained out ALOT). once repaired, I ran like a deere.
My point is to source the cause of the bearing failure, usually in lower rpm engines its not from metal fatigue. It may have been something simple as improper assembly previously. It might be worth it to talk to your local machine shops to make sure they are familiar with these old engines. There isn't much worse than a machine shop guy learning on your engine. some can do it, some CAN'T.
Hope this helps ya.
_________________
1950 mc crawling around
My uncle bought a G tractor that kept throwing the flywheel off, Finally when we got the flywheel to stay on, you could hear the knock. We finally traced it to the pot metal collar on the oil pump had broken so the oil pump wasn't turning/producing pressure. I had figgured it was due to water in the crankcase(drained out ALOT). once repaired, I ran like a deere.
My point is to source the cause of the bearing failure, usually in lower rpm engines its not from metal fatigue. It may have been something simple as improper assembly previously. It might be worth it to talk to your local machine shops to make sure they are familiar with these old engines. There isn't much worse than a machine shop guy learning on your engine. some can do it, some CAN'T.
Hope this helps ya.
_________________
1950 mc crawling around
1950 mc crawling around
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- 40C crawler
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:00 pm
- Location: East Texas
Thanks guys. I had figured it needed to be torn down and looked at.
Are the bearings now available in the usual undersizes? I noticed back in the day (in the shop manual) JD only offered .003 and .005 undersized.
Also what overbore do the pistons come in?
Good thing about a Crawler...you don't have to support the rear half when you pull the engine like you do on a "tractor".
Appreciate the suggestions. BBJ
Are the bearings now available in the usual undersizes? I noticed back in the day (in the shop manual) JD only offered .003 and .005 undersized.
Also what overbore do the pistons come in?
Good thing about a Crawler...you don't have to support the rear half when you pull the engine like you do on a "tractor".
Appreciate the suggestions. BBJ
1952 John Deere MC, 1960 John Deere 4010 turbo'd diesel
I have bearings in 10, 20, 30, pistons in 45, 90, 125.
Lavoy
Lavoy
Parts and restoration for antique and late model John Deere crawlers.
Owner and moderator www.jdcrawlers.com
Owner and moderator www.jdcrawlers.com
.125!!
An 1/8" overbore is possible on these blocks? Wow. Can ya get crazy compression ratios like maybe 9:1?!?
The only problem I see, maybe the drivetrain wouldn't hold up to the possible 50 hp..
The only problem I see, maybe the drivetrain wouldn't hold up to the possible 50 hp..
1950 mc crawling around
The catch is he didn't say he has rings to fit those pistons. LOL
Bryce
Bryce
No trees were hurt in the creation of this message.
But, many electrons were terribly bothered.
440IC/602, 2-440ICD/831 MM UBU-LP, 445N-LP, 445E-LP, BIG MO 400-M, 4 Star-LP M5-D, M5-LP, M602-LP, M670-LP, G900-LP, G900-D, G1000 Vista-LP Case 580CK
But, many electrons were terribly bothered.
440IC/602, 2-440ICD/831 MM UBU-LP, 445N-LP, 445E-LP, BIG MO 400-M, 4 Star-LP M5-D, M5-LP, M602-LP, M670-LP, G900-LP, G900-D, G1000 Vista-LP Case 580CK
Yes, 125 is possible. No on the compression, pistons are flat top, and not enough meat to take off of the head to get that kind of compression.
Lavoy
Lavoy
Parts and restoration for antique and late model John Deere crawlers.
Owner and moderator www.jdcrawlers.com
Owner and moderator www.jdcrawlers.com
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- 40C crawler
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:00 pm
- Location: East Texas
Well guys...tore the little engine down and discovered the cause of the reported no oil pressure as soon as I slid the camshaft out. The 1/4" plug was apparently never reinstalled after the most recent rebuild. Its ashamed that the first person to crank the engine did not pay attention to the OIL PRESSURE GAUGE. He told me it probably had less than 3 hours on it??
Needless to say that the crank is ruined...but only on #1 rod throw. The #2 rod bearing and both mains are fine (or better than they should be). Just goes to show you how bullet proof these little engines are...apparently ran 3 hours (if he is telling the truth) on assembly lube and splash (if any) out of the pan. I guess there may have been a small amount making it to the bearings from the oil pump...but couldn't have been much.
I got a "parts" crawler in the deal and it still has it's engine. Will tear it down and check the condition of the crank and one rod.
Also noticed that the engine had an extremely large amout of oil all around the front. Could be because someone installed the front oil seal backwards!!
Sadly these little engines aren't IDIOT proof!!
I guess the silver lining is that it ended up being something obvious and I'm not standing around scratching my head wondering what tore it up.
Needless to say that the crank is ruined...but only on #1 rod throw. The #2 rod bearing and both mains are fine (or better than they should be). Just goes to show you how bullet proof these little engines are...apparently ran 3 hours (if he is telling the truth) on assembly lube and splash (if any) out of the pan. I guess there may have been a small amount making it to the bearings from the oil pump...but couldn't have been much.
I got a "parts" crawler in the deal and it still has it's engine. Will tear it down and check the condition of the crank and one rod.
Also noticed that the engine had an extremely large amout of oil all around the front. Could be because someone installed the front oil seal backwards!!
Sadly these little engines aren't IDIOT proof!!
I guess the silver lining is that it ended up being something obvious and I'm not standing around scratching my head wondering what tore it up.
1952 John Deere MC, 1960 John Deere 4010 turbo'd diesel
- DukeofDeere
- 1010 crawler
- Posts: 443
- Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:12 am
- Location: Hudsonville Michigan
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