Anyone ever removed the front idler wheel on a 450B?

Post support questions about your JD350 and newer crawler here
Post Reply
Pushrod
40C crawler
40C crawler
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon May 05, 2014 7:05 am
Location: West Virginia

Anyone ever removed the front idler wheel on a 450B?

Post by Pushrod » Mon Aug 04, 2014 11:12 am

This is on the starboard side of the crawler, It appears that the outside bolt head that anchors the idler in place sheared off allowing the idler to eat through the cast iron bracket around it. I'm guessing that the bolt head sheered off because when you look into the axel of the idler there is solid metal flush with the 'hub' of the idle wheel. I thought a bolt was suppose to go through the bracket into the idle wheel on each side to anchor it in place.

Looking at the service manual there does appear to be some sort of axel that the idler rides on and the bolts on each side go into. If a bolt head had sheared off is it going to be impossible to remove the opposing bolt? How do I get the axel out?

I have loosened up the tracks and have a come-a-long on the idler pulling it forward. I don't know what will happen if I remove the other bolt (if possible) to get to the axel. I assume that if a bolt head is snapped off in the axel there is no way to get the bolt body out and the entire axel must be replaced.

Pushrod
40C crawler
40C crawler
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon May 05, 2014 7:05 am
Location: West Virginia

Post by Pushrod » Wed Aug 06, 2014 7:23 am

No one out there has had to replace or remove the idler?

jthornton
440 crawler
440 crawler
Posts: 165
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 5:33 am
Location: Poplar Bluff MO
Contact:

Post by jthornton » Wed Aug 06, 2014 8:25 am

I've removed the front idler on my 350 does that count?

IIRC

Split track
Unbolt adjuster
Loosen axle bolt
Slide out the front
Remove caps

JT

Pushrod
40C crawler
40C crawler
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon May 05, 2014 7:05 am
Location: West Virginia

Post by Pushrod » Wed Aug 06, 2014 3:48 pm

Is the axel loose in the idler wheel or is it pressed in?

User avatar
jtrichard
350 crawler
350 crawler
Posts: 1883
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 9:48 pm
Location: Joshua Tree CA

Post by jtrichard » Wed Aug 06, 2014 7:02 pm

It should be loose it has bronze bushings
2010 with 622 dozer with mod. 35 ripper and a 2010 with 622 dozer bought in 1969 and a 2010 loader with drott and mod. 36 ripper

Pushrod
40C crawler
40C crawler
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon May 05, 2014 7:05 am
Location: West Virginia

Post by Pushrod » Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:49 am

The reason I ask is that the head of the outside retaining bolt is sheared off by the looks of it. When undoing the opposite bolt on the inside will the axle just spin because there is no bolt securing it on the other side, not allowing the inside bolt to extract. I wonder if I can use a bolt extractor to get the broken one out?

jthornton
440 crawler
440 crawler
Posts: 165
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 5:33 am
Location: Poplar Bluff MO
Contact:

Post by jthornton » Thu Aug 07, 2014 6:07 am

If you are talking about the center bolt that goes in the axle it should break free before turning the axle. It clamps the cap to the axle. I'm wondering why you have not put a wrench on it yet? Can you post a photo of the offending bolt?

JT

Pushrod
40C crawler
40C crawler
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon May 05, 2014 7:05 am
Location: West Virginia

Post by Pushrod » Thu Aug 07, 2014 9:33 am

jthornton wrote:If you are talking about the center bolt that goes in the axle it should break free before turning the axle. It clamps the cap to the axle. I'm wondering why you have not put a wrench on it yet? Can you post a photo of the offending bolt?

JT
I wont be out to my property where the dozer is for a couple of weeks (I'm on vacation). I have a thread in this section with some pictures of the trashed idler assembly. Just search for posts from me. I'm going to try and complete the repair without breaking the tracks or removing the idler wheel. If I can remove the broken bolt and replace the trashed bracket that way it will save a hell of a lot of time and effort. I put a come-a-long on the idler and pulled it back into alignment from what you'll see in the pictures.

User avatar
jtrichard
350 crawler
350 crawler
Posts: 1883
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 9:48 pm
Location: Joshua Tree CA

Post by jtrichard » Thu Aug 07, 2014 10:54 am

looking at your pics and the parts book ( i dont think you will be-able to get the mount brackets off with out taking the track off) ...most likely you will have to replace both arms (axle- mount bracket)..... pull the outer one then clamp/grab the axle (outer end) and then pull the inside bolt you will probably have to replace the axle as well (the ends wear down from spinning in the arms) you might need to drive a wedge in between the wheel and the adjuster bracket to move the wheel forward ... i have had that bolt on a 2010 fall out (never seen one sheer but anything is possible) and do about the same thing .... bottom line i would say you will need NEW axle, 2 seals, 2 bolts (one special "very pricey" one reg), dowel or roll pin and both mount brackets
2010 with 622 dozer with mod. 35 ripper and a 2010 with 622 dozer bought in 1969 and a 2010 loader with drott and mod. 36 ripper

jthornton
440 crawler
440 crawler
Posts: 165
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 5:33 am
Location: Poplar Bluff MO
Contact:

Post by jthornton » Fri Aug 08, 2014 4:46 am

I saw your photos and you will be splitting the track to get the idler brackets (T32053) off. Look them up in the online parts and you will see a bottom lip that forces you to slide the idler, shaft, brackets off the front of the frame rail. It is almost identical to my 350 and I've had the idlers off of it replacing the bushings.

JT

Pushrod
40C crawler
40C crawler
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon May 05, 2014 7:05 am
Location: West Virginia

Post by Pushrod » Tue Oct 07, 2014 12:36 pm

Still haven't gotten this off yet. Every friggin bolt is rusted on and the heads shear off while trying to remove them. What would probably be a weekend project is taking all friggin year! Anyone else have a problem with the bolts on these old dozers?

Pushrod
40C crawler
40C crawler
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon May 05, 2014 7:05 am
Location: West Virginia

Post by Pushrod » Tue Oct 07, 2014 12:36 pm

Still haven't gotten this off yet. Every friggin bolt is rusted on and the heads shear off while trying to remove them. What would probably be a weekend project is taking all friggin year! Anyone else have a problem with the bolts on these old dozers?

User avatar
Tigerhaze
350 crawler
350 crawler
Posts: 2278
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:13 pm
Location: West-Central MO

Post by Tigerhaze » Tue Oct 07, 2014 1:00 pm

If you are talking about the bolts that connect the front idler brackets to the hydraulic adjuster, then yes I have sheared them off/stripped bolt holes as well on my 2010. The good thing is once sheared you can separate the two and then take the idler bracket in and have drilled/retapped.

You may want to use some heat first to free up so you don't shear any more of them.
(1) JD Straight 450 crawler dozer with manual outside blade; (2) JD 2010 diesel crawler loaders; (1) JD 2010 diesel dozer with hydraulic 6-way blade; (2) Model 50 backhoe attachments, misc. other construction equipment

Labparamour
440 crawler
440 crawler
Posts: 124
Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:38 am
Location: Duvall, WA

Post by Labparamour » Tue Oct 07, 2014 6:55 pm

"Yes" to sheared bolts. Think I have aftermarket rollers on the bottom of my machine: hex socket and all stripped out trying to remove to check lube. Welded nuts onto them to remove. Non-standard straight thread-larger than SAE but smaller than metric...gonna be machining my own w hex head.
Use anti-seize on everything!
Glad I'm not the only one whose projects take longer than planned!

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests