brake system repair on a 440 diesel john deere crawler
brake system repair on a 440 diesel john deere crawler
the left brake will not engage to cause the tractor to turn in the direction I want it to go Do I need to get a new brake band or does most likely need an adjustment. While I'm on the subject do I need to drop the tract to replace any brake repair>
- Stan Disbrow
- 350 crawler
- Posts: 2900
- Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:13 pm
- Location: Raleigh, NC
Hi,
It ought to have stopped dead in its' tracks. The sticks ought to have released both steering clutches and the brake bands stopped both tracks.
Even if the brake was not applying, it ought not to have turned to the right. To turn right, power had to be passing to the left track.
The left clutch is not releasing. The brake band cannot overpower the stuck clutches on the left side.
Stan
It ought to have stopped dead in its' tracks. The sticks ought to have released both steering clutches and the brake bands stopped both tracks.
Even if the brake was not applying, it ought not to have turned to the right. To turn right, power had to be passing to the left track.
The left clutch is not releasing. The brake band cannot overpower the stuck clutches on the left side.
Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
Tomorrow I am going to repeat the test just to make sure I did it right. I just thought about a new twist when I pulled both brakes at the same time. The left clutch doesn't have a spring that pulls the brake handle back like the one on the right. I can pull it back with no resistance and have to give it a slight nudge to go back to the starting position.When I pull back with force I hear a slight rubbing noise but no braking action. I'm sure you all can make sense of this.I really appreciate your input because I'm almost clueless when it comes to crawler brake systems.
- Stan Disbrow
- 350 crawler
- Posts: 2900
- Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:13 pm
- Location: Raleigh, NC
Hi,
Now it really sounds like the left clutch is swollen up. If they get water in there, the fiber discs swell up and the clutch will never release. The rubbing sound would be your brake band engaging. But, it has no hope of working if the clutch does not release.
Some makes of crawlers do not have steering clutches. Such as the old Alis, Oliver and Case/Terratrac. They just have the same differential and brakes as the wheel tractors they were modified from.
This is not the way Deere, IH, Cat, etc did it. They have no differential and use clutch packs to remove drive to the track. Then, a brake is applied.
The clutch pack you are having trouble with is a series of interspaced fiber and steel discs inside a drum. The power comes from the ring and pinion gesrset to the fiber discs. A pressure plate squeezes the fiber and steel discs together. The steel discs drive the drum and that output goes to the final pinion and bull gear and then to the sprocket.
The brake is a band wrapped around the outside of the clutch pack drum. The steering lever first pushes the throwout bearing which pushes back the springs on the pressure plate. This allows the fiber discs to spin free of the steel discs. Power is now no longer applied to the track. Then, as the lever is pulled back further, the brake band tightens on the drum and stops the track.
The fix, I fear, is to replace the fiber and steel discs on the left side. This requires dropping the track, removing the sprocket, lifting off the left side final drive, and disassembling the clutch pack.
Stan
Now it really sounds like the left clutch is swollen up. If they get water in there, the fiber discs swell up and the clutch will never release. The rubbing sound would be your brake band engaging. But, it has no hope of working if the clutch does not release.
Some makes of crawlers do not have steering clutches. Such as the old Alis, Oliver and Case/Terratrac. They just have the same differential and brakes as the wheel tractors they were modified from.
This is not the way Deere, IH, Cat, etc did it. They have no differential and use clutch packs to remove drive to the track. Then, a brake is applied.
The clutch pack you are having trouble with is a series of interspaced fiber and steel discs inside a drum. The power comes from the ring and pinion gesrset to the fiber discs. A pressure plate squeezes the fiber and steel discs together. The steel discs drive the drum and that output goes to the final pinion and bull gear and then to the sprocket.
The brake is a band wrapped around the outside of the clutch pack drum. The steering lever first pushes the throwout bearing which pushes back the springs on the pressure plate. This allows the fiber discs to spin free of the steel discs. Power is now no longer applied to the track. Then, as the lever is pulled back further, the brake band tightens on the drum and stops the track.
The fix, I fear, is to replace the fiber and steel discs on the left side. This requires dropping the track, removing the sprocket, lifting off the left side final drive, and disassembling the clutch pack.
Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
- Stan Disbrow
- 350 crawler
- Posts: 2900
- Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:13 pm
- Location: Raleigh, NC
Hi,
Oh, and welcome to the Number One Fun all of us here have when it comes to working on crawlers. Steering issues.
I also did not mention this, but it is wise to rebuild both sides when one side acts up.....
I know. Yikes!
Also, you will be needing the Deere service manual. And the adjustment gauge. Can't do this without them.....
And, buy the parts from Lavoy. Not just because he is our host. But because there are junk parts out there. Lots of us have been bit by cheap parts where we got what we paid for. Then, had to do it all again in short order. Lavoy is a better deal than Deere, as well.
Stan
Oh, and welcome to the Number One Fun all of us here have when it comes to working on crawlers. Steering issues.
I also did not mention this, but it is wise to rebuild both sides when one side acts up.....
I know. Yikes!
Also, you will be needing the Deere service manual. And the adjustment gauge. Can't do this without them.....
And, buy the parts from Lavoy. Not just because he is our host. But because there are junk parts out there. Lots of us have been bit by cheap parts where we got what we paid for. Then, had to do it all again in short order. Lavoy is a better deal than Deere, as well.
Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
- gregjo1948
- 350 crawler
- Posts: 1000
- Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 5:58 am
- Location: Newark Valley,NY,USA
Before tearing it apart, you can try to free up the left clutch. Put it in gear and pull both turn levers and repeatedly pop the main clutch. You can also drive it up to an unmovable object (tree), pull both turn levers, and repeatedly bump the object. I don't recommend hitting the object at high speeds. It could leave a mark. gregjo1948
JD 350B diesel 6way blade, Case 580B Loader/backhoe, Farmall 504 high crop w/ flail boom mower, International 404 , International 284 diesel w/belly mower, 1972 Ford F600 dump truck, Galion 3-5 roller, Allis Chalmers D17, 1620 Ford
- gregjo1948
- 350 crawler
- Posts: 1000
- Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 5:58 am
- Location: Newark Valley,NY,USA
bobnmag2 wrote:Thanks for all of the advice. I guess baling wire won't wo
rk this time.
MAYBE DUCT TAPE!!!!!!!!!!
JD 350B diesel 6way blade, Case 580B Loader/backhoe, Farmall 504 high crop w/ flail boom mower, International 404 , International 284 diesel w/belly mower, 1972 Ford F600 dump truck, Galion 3-5 roller, Allis Chalmers D17, 1620 Ford
- Stan Disbrow
- 350 crawler
- Posts: 2900
- Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:13 pm
- Location: Raleigh, NC
Hi,
Nope. No baling wire or duct tape. Not even the hi tech tie wraps will help.
And don't dump oil in there to free it up. Folks have done that. Doesn't work and only makes a mess.....
Stan
Nope. No baling wire or duct tape. Not even the hi tech tie wraps will help.
And don't dump oil in there to free it up. Folks have done that. Doesn't work and only makes a mess.....
Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
I found a big ugly tree on my property then put it in gear as you said and headed for the tree.As i hit the tree in low gear I felt something move and realized that it was my body flying thru the air up into the branches. My brakes however remained the same,and I am sure everyone believes my story. On the serious side can someone recommend a book which would show me step by step how remove the track,wheel, and final drive to repair my whole brake unit inside. Not sure I want to try it until I find someone who could come in a bail me out.At 84 years old why am I even thinking about this??
- Stan Disbrow
- 350 crawler
- Posts: 2900
- Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:13 pm
- Location: Raleigh, NC
Hi,
The service manual has the directions you need.
I asked the same question you just did. The first time I think I was 14.....
Dad just laughed.
Stan
The service manual has the directions you need.
I asked the same question you just did. The first time I think I was 14.....
Dad just laughed.
Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
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