Looking at a 40/420 help with ID and missing carrier roller?

[kilohertz]

HI guys,

Found what I think is a second generation 420, but am still trying to determine. Can't find an ID plate or tag. It is a 5 roller machine with a drawbar, 3 point and PTO and inside mount blade. It looks to be in all original condition except for being converted to 12 volt system. It runs and drives fine. Thing is, it looks like the carrier roller is missing on both sides. Did 420s with 5 rollers come without the carrier rollers?

What would something like this be worth in current condition? I know it's market dependent but a general idea. Also, I think the 3 point is of some value??

thanks

[Lavoy]

Looks to me to be a Phase 3 crawler, but not positive. Yes, upper idlers are missing and should be there. Just recently someone posted that one sounding the same had brought $4000 +.
Lavoy

[kilohertz]

Thanks Lavoy, appreciate the help. So it's definitely not a 40 then. I will try to find the upper rollers and arms. Do you have these available?

May try to make an offer on it this weekend. It would be a fun project. I think the tracks are different from my 350's which means my track gauge won't work on it, but the sprockets looks okay. I will have to have a closer look at the pins/bushings and such before deciding, although restoring this is most of the fun. I know the gauge panel looks different than the 40 and the shifter cover has the round dome, rather than the pointier tower. I'm still learning about these and the various versions. If I can find some more definitive info, I will post back here for others who may need the same help.

Cheers

[Stan Disbrow]

Hi,

The main item which would tell me Phase-III, I can't see in those pics. The 3 has an engine oil dipstick on the right side with a large bayonet cap. As in large enough to pour oil in rather than thru the breather cap on top.

This, due to the fact the 430 and 440 would cover the breather cap with a wider (well, flattened) hood. They needed the larger dipstick hole, and that was one of the changes for 420-3.

All that said, I do think it is a phase III as well.

Nice machines, the 420 5-rollers. Ought to be fairly easy to put the top idlers back. Someone probably never bothered to lube the originals, they crapped out, and were pulled off. For some reason upper idlers seem to be overlooked a lot. Might be because you have to back one bolt out to vent it when lubing...

Stan

[kilohertz]

Thanks Stan! I checked some of the other pics I have and the dipstick is on the left side, behind the carb. Does this make it phase II? I'll post a few more closeup pics. Anything you see to make you say "RUN AWAY!"?

Cheers

[Lavoy]

I might have upper idlers and supports on hand, would have to check.
Pretty positive it is Phase 3, evidenced by long slot shifter tower. I have had way more Phase 3 crawlers without the RH dipstick, than with, so that does not disqualify it. Typically if they have the dipstick on the RH side, it is a replacement block, not original. If you look at a 420 parts book, it does not list the RH dipstick til after 140,000 which is a 430. I have had several with the boss in the block on the RH side, but not bored for the dipstick. In fact my current Phase 3 is this way. The only one I had that did have the dipstick on the RH side, I ran the serial number of the block through Deere, and they said it did not relate to a 420 crawler, so obviously a block swap.
Lavoy

[Stan Disbrow]

Hi,

Interesting. Mine is 138-something thousand (I don't have the SN handy here in the house) and it has the RH dipstick and this engine is original to the machine. Everything is still original to the machine.

This is why my mind has always connected the RH dipstick with Phase-III. It is really easy to spot, of course. I shall now have to change that.

Stan

[kilohertz]

Hey guys, thanks for the info, as always you fellows are a complete wealth of knowledge. I had another look at it today and dug away the mud from the U/C and yanked on the tracks....mmmmm, I could pick them up easily and then I could pull them off center by about 2 inches. Assuming the pins bushings are worn, but as this won't see heavy use, should I be worried about this slop? I know it will tighten up when the tension is correct. I haven't ever had a track loose on any of my machines so I have no experience in how much you should or shouldn't be able to twist them off center. They are definitely in a different class than the 350 tracks. Is the cost similar to repin/bush the tracks as the 350 or is it a bit cheaper...or is it more of an availability problem? Perhaps get the carrier rollers on and tensioned first then see how it looks.

I also looked for the S/N tag and found the boss and rivets on the torque tube, but tag was missing. Dag nab-it!

So phase III, I guess that's good, although I don't think it really matters, I just wanted to confirm before I started looking for parts...well, I guess we should just go buy it first.

Again...thank you!!

[Lavoy]

Two inches across that distance is not all that bad, I wouldn't worry about it til you get it home and look at other things.
Rebushing in the $1600 range right now, and yes, availability can be sporadic, but not that long of delay to restock.
Lavoy