I'm trying to help a guy out with a building site for his shop. He is wanting to place it on a hill that is about 5 feet out of level.
He wants to dig out the top of the hill and he does not care that it's going to need a retaining wall in the future and fill the bottom of the hill and again add a retaining wall.
My question was with my 450c loader is it best to scoop and carry from the very top to the very bottom and working towards the center OR try and push gradually across the whole working area? I'm thinking the scoop and carry is the best method.
I'm also concerned he's not going to allow it to settle much. Short of owning a sheep's foot is there anything I can do to help with compaction? Basically we're talking about adding 2.5 feet of fill on the bottom end but probably only 6 to 12" will be filled where the actual shop will set.
Moving Dirt on a hill
Moving Dirt on a hill
JD- 450C track loader
Serial #208336T
Serial #208336T
better to push it and keep it in thin layers as you can compact it as you go ......about 6 inches at a time and "walk" the loader over all the fill ...rinse and repeat till done
2010 with 622 dozer with mod. 35 ripper and a 2010 with 622 dozer bought in 1969 and a 2010 loader with drott and mod. 36 ripper
Hi-
What general area of MO is this shop and what kinds of soils are you working in? The mention of sheepsfoot roller implies "fat" (expansive) clays but want to be sure. I know the geology of Missouri pretty well so general location would help me to understand if you don't have specifics to give you some targeted suggestions.
What general area of MO is this shop and what kinds of soils are you working in? The mention of sheepsfoot roller implies "fat" (expansive) clays but want to be sure. I know the geology of Missouri pretty well so general location would help me to understand if you don't have specifics to give you some targeted suggestions.
(1) JD Straight 450 crawler dozer with manual outside blade; (2) JD 2010 diesel crawler loaders; (1) JD 2010 diesel dozer with hydraulic 6-way blade; (2) Model 50 backhoe attachments, misc. other construction equipment
Jasper county down in the SW corner of the state. There is no clay, I used the term sheeps foot in general for compaction. The dirt is fairly fine with quite a few rocks, it's dry as bone right now. I'm fairly sure I ate at least 5 pounds of dirt last night moving stumps and such.
JD- 450C track loader
Serial #208336T
Serial #208336T
Been there and done it a number of times.
#1..... Dig and level the site until the building is on original dirt or at least the footings are well into original dirt. NOT on fill!!
#2 ... IF any fill dirt is inside the building, put heavy rock then fine rock under the floor and compact it
3# ... IF you did not do 1&2, you WILL have settling problems.
I would also suggest drain tile around the back of the building, gravel packed. I would also suggest oversized footings on the fill side of the building.
#1..... Dig and level the site until the building is on original dirt or at least the footings are well into original dirt. NOT on fill!!
#2 ... IF any fill dirt is inside the building, put heavy rock then fine rock under the floor and compact it
3# ... IF you did not do 1&2, you WILL have settling problems.
I would also suggest drain tile around the back of the building, gravel packed. I would also suggest oversized footings on the fill side of the building.
Not good to eat all of that dirt if from the chat pile areas near Webb City
On a serious note, compaction is pretty important when placing fill or it will settle over time- not good for foundation areas. Some people have success with little to no compaction if they "track in" the placed soil with the equipment but then let it consolidate over a year or two but is the exception.
Placing and compacting in thin loose lifts (typically no more than 12 inches thick and better if 6 inches thick) like JT said is the way to go, but the soil has to be somewhat moist when you compact or will be for nothing. Just before compacting spray a nice mist over the lift area to where the surface gets slightly shiny but not overly wet or saturated (engineers call that "optimum moisture"). Then roll each lift evenly- vibration is good if available but can be overdone if soils are too wet or too thick a lift. You want the surface of the finished lift to be a little rough after rolling so the next layer will bond well to the previous surface. Just tracking over the rolled surface can accomplish that.
You can only get so much compaction with a crawler- they actually have a fairly low ground pressure due to the large surface area of the tracks. I really would recommend renting a roller compactor (for non-clay soil go with a padfoot or smooth drum rather than sheepsfoot). If you can't afford that then roll it in multiple passes with a medium duty truck- all will typically get better ground pressure and thus compaction due to higher ratio of weight to surface area than a track.
In the end with those fine grained soils he still may have issues with some settlement and freeze-thaw heaving. If you are doing a floorless shed or slab on grade you definitely want a good compacted gravel layer below the slab to below the frost line if possible, and if bedrock is not too deep he may even want to consider piers. However not seeing the location and soils directly those are just ideas and not professional determinations or conclusions.
EDIT: Gus's suggestions are also good ones.
On a serious note, compaction is pretty important when placing fill or it will settle over time- not good for foundation areas. Some people have success with little to no compaction if they "track in" the placed soil with the equipment but then let it consolidate over a year or two but is the exception.
Placing and compacting in thin loose lifts (typically no more than 12 inches thick and better if 6 inches thick) like JT said is the way to go, but the soil has to be somewhat moist when you compact or will be for nothing. Just before compacting spray a nice mist over the lift area to where the surface gets slightly shiny but not overly wet or saturated (engineers call that "optimum moisture"). Then roll each lift evenly- vibration is good if available but can be overdone if soils are too wet or too thick a lift. You want the surface of the finished lift to be a little rough after rolling so the next layer will bond well to the previous surface. Just tracking over the rolled surface can accomplish that.
You can only get so much compaction with a crawler- they actually have a fairly low ground pressure due to the large surface area of the tracks. I really would recommend renting a roller compactor (for non-clay soil go with a padfoot or smooth drum rather than sheepsfoot). If you can't afford that then roll it in multiple passes with a medium duty truck- all will typically get better ground pressure and thus compaction due to higher ratio of weight to surface area than a track.
In the end with those fine grained soils he still may have issues with some settlement and freeze-thaw heaving. If you are doing a floorless shed or slab on grade you definitely want a good compacted gravel layer below the slab to below the frost line if possible, and if bedrock is not too deep he may even want to consider piers. However not seeing the location and soils directly those are just ideas and not professional determinations or conclusions.
EDIT: Gus's suggestions are also good ones.
(1) JD Straight 450 crawler dozer with manual outside blade; (2) JD 2010 diesel crawler loaders; (1) JD 2010 diesel dozer with hydraulic 6-way blade; (2) Model 50 backhoe attachments, misc. other construction equipment
Thank you for the suggestions, I'll do the best I can within what my friend will allow. He says he appreciates my concerns but he has addressed the issues with the person who's going to build the shop. He just wants me to compact it the best I can with my loader even after I explained I have less PSF than a law mower....
I'm not to far from the Chat Piles....but they are not an issue here.
I'm not to far from the Chat Piles....but they are not an issue here.
JD- 450C track loader
Serial #208336T
Serial #208336T
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