FUEL INJECTION PUMP Shaft or Gear Broke - 1972 350bb
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- MC crawler
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2016 10:35 am
- Location: Rochester, NH
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FUEL INJECTION PUMP Shaft or Gear Broke - 1972 350bb
I recently purchased my 350bb with the 4in one bucket from and 85 year old original owner. It had been sitting for a year or so due to his health. I purchased it for grooming our motocross track which is primarily sand and wood chips in a pine grove , no rocks etc. so pretty light on the workload once I get it refurbished is my hope. A couple hours of operation this happened:
I went for a big scoop of dirt at the bottom of a slight incline and I heard a clunk sound and it stalled. After opening the cover I notices all the fan blade were bent back
https://www.dropbox.com/s/i9668buon5eef ... 9.jpg?dl=0
I don't see any obstruction or wear marks on anything showing what they hit that bent them. No rocks or anything in the pan below. What I did notice is the big flange where the shaft/stud comes out of the fuel injection pump to meet the gear cracked and snapped. Photo link below.. I'm not sure if when that broke is pushed out and that's what the fan hit or if they are separate isolated problems. What concerns me the most is why that shaft broke and does that connect to the motor possibly indicating further damage then the fan and Injection pump needing to be replaced. There was oil all over the motor but didn't smell like motor oil. My guess is hydrolic fluid or fuel.
Broken Fuel Injection Pump.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/o4yr602doe42z ... 6.jpg?dl=0
Next Steps: I was going to drain the coolant, take off the radiator to get at the fan and replace it. Also easier to get at that pump and. It does need the transmission seal replaced so figured I'd like to invest the time in going through it now and making her whole again so I can concentrate on peripherals once I know the motor any hydraulics are fresh. Assuming I need to get that bucket up in order to do any of this?
Then I have one clutch that is either froze from sitting or needs to be replaced. But I dont want to dig into anything until I know I have the motor solid. Its about to finally warm up up here in NH so I want to get on it early!
Where can I buy replacement pump and fan blades etc. Looks like the model on the injection pump is AR49904 but I need to brush some paint off to be sure.
Thanks!
I went for a big scoop of dirt at the bottom of a slight incline and I heard a clunk sound and it stalled. After opening the cover I notices all the fan blade were bent back
https://www.dropbox.com/s/i9668buon5eef ... 9.jpg?dl=0
I don't see any obstruction or wear marks on anything showing what they hit that bent them. No rocks or anything in the pan below. What I did notice is the big flange where the shaft/stud comes out of the fuel injection pump to meet the gear cracked and snapped. Photo link below.. I'm not sure if when that broke is pushed out and that's what the fan hit or if they are separate isolated problems. What concerns me the most is why that shaft broke and does that connect to the motor possibly indicating further damage then the fan and Injection pump needing to be replaced. There was oil all over the motor but didn't smell like motor oil. My guess is hydrolic fluid or fuel.
Broken Fuel Injection Pump.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/o4yr602doe42z ... 6.jpg?dl=0
Next Steps: I was going to drain the coolant, take off the radiator to get at the fan and replace it. Also easier to get at that pump and. It does need the transmission seal replaced so figured I'd like to invest the time in going through it now and making her whole again so I can concentrate on peripherals once I know the motor any hydraulics are fresh. Assuming I need to get that bucket up in order to do any of this?
Then I have one clutch that is either froze from sitting or needs to be replaced. But I dont want to dig into anything until I know I have the motor solid. Its about to finally warm up up here in NH so I want to get on it early!
Where can I buy replacement pump and fan blades etc. Looks like the model on the injection pump is AR49904 but I need to brush some paint off to be sure.
Thanks!
1972 JD 350bb 4 in one loader owner and motocross enthusiast. Bough this old workhorse and slowly rebuilding it for grooming our sand motocross track.
- Stan Disbrow
- 350 crawler
- Posts: 2898
- Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:13 pm
- Location: Raleigh, NC
Hi,
Well, pics don't view unless one signs into Dropbox. So, I can't see what is up.
But, sounds like you snapped your injector pump driveshaft. The one with the necked-down spot which is meant to snap when the pump load rises too high.
This protects both the pump and the driven gear under the timing cover. This would have no correlation to the fan blades, so you have two issues.
Why the pump loads is usually debris. This might come from the fuel tank if the filters are messed up. Or it may be internal to the pump if the form of a deteriorating Pellethane Ring. Search 'mouse turds' in this section.
If it was the Ring, then the IP most likely can be rebuilt. The shaft needs replacing, and that means pulling the nose off and getting to the timing cover so you can get that off to get to the IP driven gear.
Stan
Well, pics don't view unless one signs into Dropbox. So, I can't see what is up.
But, sounds like you snapped your injector pump driveshaft. The one with the necked-down spot which is meant to snap when the pump load rises too high.
This protects both the pump and the driven gear under the timing cover. This would have no correlation to the fan blades, so you have two issues.
Why the pump loads is usually debris. This might come from the fuel tank if the filters are messed up. Or it may be internal to the pump if the form of a deteriorating Pellethane Ring. Search 'mouse turds' in this section.
If it was the Ring, then the IP most likely can be rebuilt. The shaft needs replacing, and that means pulling the nose off and getting to the timing cover so you can get that off to get to the IP driven gear.
Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
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- MC crawler
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2016 10:35 am
- Location: Rochester, NH
- Contact:
Can you see the images now? So When the shaft broke you can see by the first image it even broke that mounting plate/flange where the pump bolts to the gear area. I'm thinking maybe the gear broke also to cause such a hard impact to break that flange?
1972 JD 350bb 4 in one loader owner and motocross enthusiast. Bough this old workhorse and slowly rebuilding it for grooming our sand motocross track.
- Stan Disbrow
- 350 crawler
- Posts: 2898
- Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:13 pm
- Location: Raleigh, NC
Hi,
Yes, I see photos now....yes, I see the snapped flange and....yes, the bent blades and...oh, deere....oil all over....
You must have locked the timing gear train and blew gear bits out thru the timing cover.
Now you will have more of a mess when you find out what happened between the valves and pistons as the cam lurched to a stop and the crank kept on going.
I have seen many engines where this happened. Just not on 3 cyl JD diesels. Racing engines. And, it is never a happy story. Usually means starting over with a new engine.
The poor old thing is going to have to come out and all apart. Well, what isn't already apart. I refer to this sort of thing as Catastrophic Self-Disassembly.
Stan
Yes, I see photos now....yes, I see the snapped flange and....yes, the bent blades and...oh, deere....oil all over....
You must have locked the timing gear train and blew gear bits out thru the timing cover.
Now you will have more of a mess when you find out what happened between the valves and pistons as the cam lurched to a stop and the crank kept on going.
I have seen many engines where this happened. Just not on 3 cyl JD diesels. Racing engines. And, it is never a happy story. Usually means starting over with a new engine.
The poor old thing is going to have to come out and all apart. Well, what isn't already apart. I refer to this sort of thing as Catastrophic Self-Disassembly.
Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
-
- MC crawler
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2016 10:35 am
- Location: Rochester, NH
- Contact:
Oh boy,
So assuming the worst. Can I even get parts for a rebuild on this ole girl or is this wishful thinking. I'm not afraid of tearing her down and going through it if its doable and reasonably available parts etc. I guess best bet is to tear the radiator, fan, waterpump and all that off the front right away to even start to assess ?
So assuming the worst. Can I even get parts for a rebuild on this ole girl or is this wishful thinking. I'm not afraid of tearing her down and going through it if its doable and reasonably available parts etc. I guess best bet is to tear the radiator, fan, waterpump and all that off the front right away to even start to assess ?
1972 JD 350bb 4 in one loader owner and motocross enthusiast. Bough this old workhorse and slowly rebuilding it for grooming our sand motocross track.
- Stan Disbrow
- 350 crawler
- Posts: 2898
- Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:13 pm
- Location: Raleigh, NC
Hi,
Well, they still make this engine in a slightly larger displacement, both turbo and non. Just look at the current 5045D Ag wheel tractor. And, just about everything is available for them.
But, as noted, the costs will add up. You might as well start by getting the nose off and working your way back to the engine and see for sure what happened. I know I would want to know, even if it wound up becoming a yard ornament.
If what happened matches my imagination, then it is probably time to think about an entire engine. Or maybe another whole machine and this one becomes parts for everything but the engine.
Stan
Well, they still make this engine in a slightly larger displacement, both turbo and non. Just look at the current 5045D Ag wheel tractor. And, just about everything is available for them.
But, as noted, the costs will add up. You might as well start by getting the nose off and working your way back to the engine and see for sure what happened. I know I would want to know, even if it wound up becoming a yard ornament.
If what happened matches my imagination, then it is probably time to think about an entire engine. Or maybe another whole machine and this one becomes parts for everything but the engine.
Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
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- MC crawler
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2016 10:35 am
- Location: Rochester, NH
- Contact:
Thanks guys. Yeah seams like a shame as hydraulics and clamshell ets is wo perfect for grooming our track and well seemed alot cheaper then a track steer but I guess I got what I pad for. Only have $3k into the machine so far. I'm going to dig into it this weekend and get the front off at the very least. It's motocross season coming up and need to be grooming our track is why I'm feeling the urgency.. Thought I'd only be rebuilding kids motocross motors this time in spring not a 3 cyc diesel! =-)
1972 JD 350bb 4 in one loader owner and motocross enthusiast. Bough this old workhorse and slowly rebuilding it for grooming our sand motocross track.
-
- MC crawler
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2016 10:35 am
- Location: Rochester, NH
- Contact:
What is the best way to raise that boom? As is all hooked up and a big comalong and put stands under it ? Or do I need to detach the bucket to lighten it up etc?
1972 JD 350bb 4 in one loader owner and motocross enthusiast. Bough this old workhorse and slowly rebuilding it for grooming our sand motocross track.
-
- MC crawler
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2016 10:35 am
- Location: Rochester, NH
- Contact:
What is the best way to raise that boom? As is all hooked up and a big comalong and put stands under it ? Or do I need to detach the bucket to lighten it up etc?
If your engine still turns over you can just crank it while holding the bucket control lever up and it will raise fairly quickly.
Sorry to hear about your troubles! [/i]
If your engine still turns over you can just crank it while holding the bucket control lever up and it will raise fairly quickly.
Sorry to hear about your troubles! [/i]
350
Raise it anyway you can,, but another tractor loader or backhoe or excavator works the fastest,, remember to pull on the lift handle for the bucket during raising to let oil by inside the cylinders... also it will not stay up on it's own after raising it this way.... caution!!
after it has been raised.. I put an angle Iron on top of each lift cylinder.. on top of the chrome rod.. 28"s long then I lower the loader so the weight comes onto these cylinder stops... makes me feel much safer and it holds the loader up high enough to be out of the way.... I also put a couple pieces of wire around both the chrome rod and the angle iron to hold it in place until the weight of the loader rests down on it...
Angle iron 2"x2" x 5/16th's x 28"s long.. life saver Mark.
after it has been raised.. I put an angle Iron on top of each lift cylinder.. on top of the chrome rod.. 28"s long then I lower the loader so the weight comes onto these cylinder stops... makes me feel much safer and it holds the loader up high enough to be out of the way.... I also put a couple pieces of wire around both the chrome rod and the angle iron to hold it in place until the weight of the loader rests down on it...
Angle iron 2"x2" x 5/16th's x 28"s long.. life saver Mark.
350 loader,350c dozer winch and arch,450c winch and arch,450e winch and arch,D37p komatsu lgp dozer,D85 Komatsu dozer,D8k Caterpillar.
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- MC crawler
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2016 10:35 am
- Location: Rochester, NH
- Contact:
Hey Mark, Jody the motocross family from NH again with the 350b clam-shell crawler. . So we got to racing all summer and Loretta qualifiers and regional s and just now finally ripped into this motor to investigate.
Do you still have new motors or parts to fix mine?
So it looks like one of those big flathead screws near the gears in the forward case with jammed in between the gear on the hydrolic pump and the fuel injection pump gear. Gears all seem good still except the inner parts need to be replaced, front case is ruined, flange around where pump shaft goes through also broke. Do you have parts still?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8qtevwavqmjjs ... 5.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5eie5s9ooleds ... 1.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/hjf44o2jqvi5s ... 3.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ugiof2egzvab7 ... 2.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/hxhtjpjy6ojzl ... 6.jpg?dl=0
List so far:
Front engine case
Fuel injection pump - JDB331MD2406 AR-49904 3251511
Fuel injection pump flange (hole opening through case)
R38203 Hydrolic pump bearing (if these can be changed?
Gear Inner hub type thing and the bolt that holds it on.
Transmission seal where it connects to engine (not sure if i need to order one of these new or not)
Left clutch rebuild
Jody LaRue
Rochester NH
Jody@vfxdirect.com
603.793.1485[/img]
Do you still have new motors or parts to fix mine?
So it looks like one of those big flathead screws near the gears in the forward case with jammed in between the gear on the hydrolic pump and the fuel injection pump gear. Gears all seem good still except the inner parts need to be replaced, front case is ruined, flange around where pump shaft goes through also broke. Do you have parts still?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8qtevwavqmjjs ... 5.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5eie5s9ooleds ... 1.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/hjf44o2jqvi5s ... 3.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ugiof2egzvab7 ... 2.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/hxhtjpjy6ojzl ... 6.jpg?dl=0
List so far:
Front engine case
Fuel injection pump - JDB331MD2406 AR-49904 3251511
Fuel injection pump flange (hole opening through case)
R38203 Hydrolic pump bearing (if these can be changed?
Gear Inner hub type thing and the bolt that holds it on.
Transmission seal where it connects to engine (not sure if i need to order one of these new or not)
Left clutch rebuild
Jody LaRue
Rochester NH
Jody@vfxdirect.com
603.793.1485[/img]
1972 JD 350bb 4 in one loader owner and motocross enthusiast. Bough this old workhorse and slowly rebuilding it for grooming our sand motocross track.
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