420c throwout bearing

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Gettingstuffdone
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420c throwout bearing

Post by Gettingstuffdone » Wed Mar 25, 2020 5:17 pm

Good Day All!

I have a 1958 420c with a left steering clutch issue. The machine is new to me, after bringing it home and about 30min of run time the left steering quit working. I popped the covers and cap to adjust the throwout and/or to see what was going on. Two thing immediately jumped out.
First is that the throwout looks fully adjusted out by looking at the set screw position, but the I have over a 1/4 inch before the throwout contacts the pressure plate fingers which just starts to engage at the end of the throw. Also, the throw out doesn't engage the fingers evenly, but I don't know if that is because of how far it has to go before it makes contact.
Second is that the brake band acts like its tension is backwards. Nothing stops it from pushing up into the adjustment screw.

The fella I got it from said he just did both clutches last summer, and the left pressure plate doesn't look old and grimy with clutch dust or grease.

Am I looking at pulling the finial drive to remedy this, or am I (hopefully) overlooking something.

Best Regards,

Jim

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Lavoy
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Re: 420c throwout bearing

Post by Lavoy » Wed Mar 25, 2020 5:36 pm

Something is screwed up, nothing you will be able to repair from the outside. Two quick guesses are previous owner never set the pressure plate fingers with the gauge, or damage to the throwout tube and associated.
My other guess is that 'Did both clutches" might mean a single part replaced, not completely rebuilt. Either way you are going to have to tear it down, nothing that can be addressed from the outside. Look at ALL of the components in there, as well as linkages, springs, etc. Fix it right, fix it once, I normally have all of the pieces in stock.
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Parts and restoration for antique and late model John Deere crawlers.
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Gettingstuffdone
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Re: 420c throwout bearing

Post by Gettingstuffdone » Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:32 pm

Alrighty then!
Thank you very much for the swift reply. The wife isn't thrilled with having to dive into it after just getting it, but in that first 30min I ran it I cleared most of her front horse pasture with it, so I told her that its her fault it broke! Ha!
Well, it gives me a reason to pick up the SM sooner than I expected...
Wish me luck,

Regards,

Jim

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Paul Buhler
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Re: 420c throwout bearing

Post by Paul Buhler » Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:54 pm

Hi: I tore into my 420s finals a few years ago, and posted here. Click on the pictures, and I think that you'll be routed to my photobucket account, and the pictures will be clear. Hope you find this thread helpful when you get into your finals. Paul

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=10160&hilit=Noise
Paul Buhler
Killington, VT
420c 5 roll with 62 blade, FOPS, and Gearmatic 8a winch

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Gettingstuffdone
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Re: 420c throwout bearing

Post by Gettingstuffdone » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:36 pm

Thank you!

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Lavoy
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Re: 420c throwout bearing

Post by Lavoy » Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:17 pm

I normally stock the service manual, if not, short delay to order. I would get a parts manual too, way handier than trying to get the info off the internet when you are standing next to the crawler.
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Parts and restoration for antique and late model John Deere crawlers.
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Gettingstuffdone
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Re: 420c throwout bearing

Post by Gettingstuffdone » Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:49 pm

Well,
I pulled the finial drive today and holy smokes- I about blew a gasket! What a heavy bugger. Anyway, the clutch/pressure plate side looks good, the brakes look good, but everything is waaaay out of adjustment. Now the first wonky bit is that the cam and throwout bearing carrier look bubbafied. The adjustment bolt on the top has three washers stacked but there is a bolt on the bottom as well that has 8 or 10 stacked up. I bet it pretty wallowed out, I am hoping that I can find the correct replacement. But the real issue I think is that the cam sits cockeyed on the quill with the bottom kicked out. I think that is where my gap and weird engagement issues lay.
Tomorrow I am gonna dive into that bit..

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Re: 420c throwout bearing

Post by Lavoy » Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:55 am

I have the parts in stock.
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Ray III
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Re: 420c throwout bearing

Post by Ray III » Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:31 am

There are steel balls behind the throwout carrier that push it out on ramps. I think the balls get replaced with whatever people can find, or not at all. They are important, as well as the adjustment of the link to the carrier.

Lavoy is right, make absolutely sure everything is correct or you will be annoyed at yourself after you put it together and have to fight to make the machine go where you want.

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Paul Buhler
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Re: 420c throwout bearing

Post by Paul Buhler » Tue Apr 07, 2020 6:32 pm

I'll second Ray's comments. Make sure that you free up all the internal parts. Things adjust up pretty well if you do, or will be a pain if overlooked. I replaced bushings, some springs and woodruff keys as well. Wish I had paid more attention to the brake pedal linkages when everything was exposed. Mine are free, but not as adjustable as they could be; NeverSeize is your friend.
Paul Buhler
Killington, VT
420c 5 roll with 62 blade, FOPS, and Gearmatic 8a winch

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Gettingstuffdone
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Re: 420c throwout bearing

Post by Gettingstuffdone » Fri Apr 10, 2020 5:47 pm

Thanks! Yes indeed I will go through it all.
My box of parts showed up and I have been soaking my linkages so I can get everybody playing nicely before I reassemble. Comparing the new parts to the old, I am defiantly glad I am replacing springs and such. Pressure plate was way out of adjustment, the brakeband engaged waaay before the clutch (not having the bearing cups played a huge roll as well as two long bolts on the throwout bearing) and the springs that looked good before I received my new ones were not the correct length. I am sure that as we all have at one time or another done, things were replaced with what was on hand to get by.
I will get this thing back together and post some photos of the beast soon.

Regards,

Jim

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Gettingstuffdone
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Re: 420c throwout bearing

Post by Gettingstuffdone » Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:37 pm

Well,
Thanks to all with advice and parts to put the machine back together. She turns like a champ!. Big advice to all is to buy and read your manuals! The fella I bought the machine from didn't have and/or follow the manuals and caused a mild headache over small ignorances. However, its nice to work on good old iron and watch it come back to life.

Regards,

Jim

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Paul Buhler
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Re: 420c throwout bearing

Post by Paul Buhler » Sun Apr 26, 2020 8:52 am

Congrats. Now you'll notice how that side is more responsive than the other, and feel a need to go there too. Old iron is addictive. I fire mine up and take a romp from time to time to keep things loose; usually very pleasant. Ocassionally I have to clean the points to get 'er started, but most often it starts right up and putts away. I've moved a few thousand yards of fill with mine, a teaspoon at a time; it owes me nothing.
Paul Buhler
Killington, VT
420c 5 roll with 62 blade, FOPS, and Gearmatic 8a winch

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