440 engine oil leaks after rebuild

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smitty906
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440 engine oil leaks after rebuild

Post by smitty906 » Sun Mar 12, 2023 9:54 am

Well I have been fighting leak after leak on this tractor.
Now I have what appears to be a oil pan gasket leak , which only leaks after the engine has shut down it follows the lip of oil pan and puddles on floor .
Also appears to leak from bayonet oil dipstick which has a gasket and appears to be a good seal.
No leaks for 3 or 4 hours after shutdown but puddles of oil on garage floor in the morning, its hard to track oil leak on fresh yellow paint .
Engine has a runtime of about 1 hour total and does not have excessive blow by out of breather in valve cover , not sure what is normal but does not appear to be a concern and I think I had chrome moly top rings which require more time to break in .
Oil pressure is around 20 at idle and I think Im using 10w30 5 quarts , but reads high on bayonet - oil filter drain back I read somewhere
Then there is the water pump which only leaks from back plate gasket when warm , guess I need to use sealant.
I soaked breather cap in solvent and somewhat cleaned out , I guess I can leave breather off and see if I get the same results .
Am I missing something here ?

Mark

dtoots1
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Re: 440 engine oil leaks after rebuild

Post by dtoots1 » Sun Mar 12, 2023 10:27 am

That sure does sound odd..
Sounds to me like some kind of pressure build up in the crankcase??? Of course new clean oil is certainly hard to trace...maybe try to add some food coloring to help trace?? My 440 Always wanted to leak from the valve cover and run down engine.

smitty906
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Re: 440 engine oil leaks after rebuild

Post by smitty906 » Sun Mar 12, 2023 1:55 pm

Well i took breather off and ran for a bit hardly any air movement at all , took piece of paper and placed over breather .
It appears oil pan is leaking at another location after shutdown .
I used gasket and permatex 80003 form a gasket , sealer is wet all the way around pan .
Ive used this sealer for everything industrial gearboxes ....etc.
So if you have a tube laying around do yourself a favor and give it to a friend that owes you money or your least favorite neighbor !

Jim B
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Re: 440 engine oil leaks after rebuild

Post by Jim B » Sun Mar 12, 2023 6:01 pm

Permatex Form-A-Gasket No. 1 is the actual name of the product you are referring to and 80003 is just the part number for an 11 oz. tube of it, right? I have used it and had good luck with it, generally on metal-to-metal surfaces without using a gasket, such as truck rear axle gearhead to housing flanges. I prefer the No.2 non-hardening grade of Form-A-Gasket if I am coating a gasket. A light coat on one side of a gasket to secure it in place. For engine and thin gaskets, I usually use Permatex High Tack on just one side to hold the gasket in place. Permatex Aviation Form-A-Gasket No. 3 Sealant is also good on gaskets. I have seen more leaks from the use of too much sealant used with gaskets, especially the silicone/RTV types. To me, many sealants allow the gaskets to slip and pucker. I also try to make it a point to do a good wipe down of the metal with 91% isopropyl rubbing alcohol before applying a sealant and/or gasket. I found I got much better sealing results with sealants, RTVs and gasket eliminator products by doing that, even when Brakleen type products were used for cleaning. Applying sealant to an oily or otherwise contaminated surface can give a leak a place to start. I wonder if that tube of sealant has separated in storage, some sealants have shelf lives, don't think I ever encountered that with #1 or #2.

Sheet metal oil pans and rocket covers tend to get distorted flanges where the capscrews tighten them down. The capscrew heads compress the gasket more than between the capscrews so the flange between them is not compressing the gasket giving a place for leaks to start. Did you go over the flange and flatten them out at the capscrew holes? I like to take a small pein hammer and use the pein side to dimple thehole towards the capscrew head side. If there is room inside the flange a flat washer on the capscrews helps lessen the distortion, some engines have special washers on oil pan and rocker cover capscrews. In theory a fresh gasket between properly prepared surfaces should seal without any sealant needing to be applied.

I'm not saying you did anything wrong, just letting you know methods I use and results I have had.

smitty906
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Re: 440 engine oil leaks after rebuild

Post by smitty906 » Sun Mar 12, 2023 7:19 pm

That was my only question was the age of the tube , probably 4 or so years old .

dtoots1
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Re: 440 engine oil leaks after rebuild

Post by dtoots1 » Tue Mar 14, 2023 5:55 pm

Gave it another thought...for example...my 89 gmc used more oil than i thought it should...after couple years of adding oil i finally climbe underneath and cleaned up the oil pan a bit and then checked it...blamed thing actually had rust pinholes init..went to summit racing and got oil pan and gasket raised engine enough to get er in ...no more oil loss..

know 440pans more robust but they are 60years old

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JAJ
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Re: 440 engine oil leaks after rebuild

Post by JAJ » Wed Mar 15, 2023 7:01 am

Beware of a mounting bolt that is to long and bottoming out inside the tapped hole. Torque it all you want and the damn gasket will still leak. Ask me how I gained that knowledge!!

smitty906
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Re: 440 engine oil leaks after rebuild

Post by smitty906 » Wed Mar 15, 2023 4:36 pm

All great points guys , what blows my mind is why it does not leak when running .
I actually think the permatex seperated from old age ...lol
Oh well new gasket ordered , now to figure out which sealant to use now.

gus
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Re: 440 engine oil leaks after rebuild

Post by gus » Wed Mar 15, 2023 5:24 pm

When it's running, the oil level is lower. It's not over filled is it? Level above the pan gasket?

smitty906
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Re: 440 engine oil leaks after rebuild

Post by smitty906 » Wed Mar 15, 2023 5:36 pm

5 quarts per manual
It is high on bayonet but I read somewhere that is because filter drains back

Jim B
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Re: 440 engine oil leaks after rebuild

Post by Jim B » Wed Mar 15, 2023 6:14 pm

What is the level on the dipstick if you check it immediately after shutting it off?

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jimmydiesel
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Re: 440 engine oil leaks after rebuild

Post by jimmydiesel » Fri Mar 17, 2023 9:51 pm

smitty906
JimB and JAJ gave you some good advice above. Make sure the pan is straight and the bolt holes have been flattened.
The pan bolts are 5/16 x 3/4”. Some of the holes are blind holes and are just a little deeper than the bolt length.
Check that the bolts go all the way in with the pan off. The best would be to run a bottom tap in them to clean the threads out.
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smitty906
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Re: 440 engine oil leaks after rebuild

Post by smitty906 » Sat Mar 18, 2023 9:33 am

Thanks for the wisdom guys
I removed all bolts one by one and checked for bottoming out last night , they are all ok .
I did tap all holes on block before reassembly , also the permatex was still sticky on the bolts ....hmmm.
I was able to get about a eighth of a turn on each bolt tighter before I started removing them , so I am wondering if the sealer compressed some after install. I ran it for a bit last night and no oil on floor this morning , the beers were tasting good listening to the 2 cylinder tune .lol
I will check oil level this afternoon , if i still have leaks the pan will come off and check for straight and also use different sealer. Gasket should be here today .
Just prepping loader bracket arms and seat frame for paint ....tired of sitting on a bucket
It has been a long winter restoring this tractor but if it does not dissapoint there will be a kubota for sale .

Mark

smitty906
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Re: 440 engine oil leaks after rebuild

Post by smitty906 » Sat Mar 18, 2023 9:38 am

JAJ
Are you above or below the bridge ?

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JAJ
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Re: 440 engine oil leaks after rebuild

Post by JAJ » Sun Mar 19, 2023 10:14 am

I’m a “Troll” about 25 miles east of Grand Rapids.

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