Cross bar bolts
Cross bar bolts
Found sheared bolts where my front Cross bar attaches to the track bars on JD 350. Doing a lot of searching here and a lot of info on rear cross equalizer bar. Did see a post where a guy talked about getting 10" long drill bits to drill out bolts. Can the inner bolts on the cross bar be accessed through the holes that mount the upper idler bracket or does the whole track bar have to be removed for drilling out the broken bolts? Hard to see until I totally remove the track and get the idler out of the way.
67 JD 350
Re: Cross bar bolts
To answer your question... no, it doesn't help to remove the upper roller bracket to access those bolts. You are way better off to remove the entire track frame so that you can access those bolts. It is extra labor but it allows you to do things that you could never do while it is still on the machine and you laying underneath it.
I even take the time to remove the rock guards and lower rollers. I take the track frame off and flip it upside down. This allows you to remove the rock guards and rollers relatively easy. Notice I said relatively easy... doesn't really mean it is easy but it is easier.
Once the guards and rollers are removed it will give you a lot better access to those bolts. Both from the inside and the outside of the frame. I have removed them by turning them on through the frame from the inside.
Most cases I have encountered I go through the process of welding nuts to the remaining bolt and they usually back right out. If you have a torch it would also help to heat the remaining piece of bolt before you try removing them. If after all of this fails to work then it at least gives you better access to drill the bolts out and go from there.
Some of the guys on here have just welded the cross bar to the track frame and disregarded those bolts. Both the inside and the outside bolts. I'm not one of those guys and I always try to keep the integrity of the machine in place. I'm not saying it is wrong to do. I'm just saying I don't like to do it personally. However if the track frame is badly worn and is mostly junk along with the cross bar itself, then it might be an alternative.
Good luck and I hope this helps.
I even take the time to remove the rock guards and lower rollers. I take the track frame off and flip it upside down. This allows you to remove the rock guards and rollers relatively easy. Notice I said relatively easy... doesn't really mean it is easy but it is easier.
Once the guards and rollers are removed it will give you a lot better access to those bolts. Both from the inside and the outside of the frame. I have removed them by turning them on through the frame from the inside.
Most cases I have encountered I go through the process of welding nuts to the remaining bolt and they usually back right out. If you have a torch it would also help to heat the remaining piece of bolt before you try removing them. If after all of this fails to work then it at least gives you better access to drill the bolts out and go from there.
Some of the guys on here have just welded the cross bar to the track frame and disregarded those bolts. Both the inside and the outside bolts. I'm not one of those guys and I always try to keep the integrity of the machine in place. I'm not saying it is wrong to do. I'm just saying I don't like to do it personally. However if the track frame is badly worn and is mostly junk along with the cross bar itself, then it might be an alternative.
Good luck and I hope this helps.
40 plus years working on JD 350s, 400Gs, 450s and other equipment both Ag and Construction.
Re: Cross bar bolts
I am 85%-90% there to remove the track bar and I discovered it looks like I have to take the sproket off to remove the track bar. My bolts on the left side I discovered are not sheared off, they are rotted out along with the threads, so it bolt it I will have to bore it and re tap next size up. 7/8 I guess. Fear I have is if I start messing with that sprocket I will probably have to heat it to get it off the hub. worried about taking out the seal on the final drive. I have a house to build and just want this to run enough for the grading and septic along with some landscaping. I hate to be a butcher but it sure is inviting to weld this thing up. I was a career welder for 16 years and still do quite a bit so it won't be bubble gummed. can get about and inch, inch and a half at the top bolts , as far as the inside bolts going in the side, again the threads are pretty punky. Track frames have seen better days, would say less than 50% of new. But again, I hate to be one of the butchers. The guys that do them to take a beating on here talk about up sizing the bolts and welding them.
If I do decide to pull the sprocket and go after the frame, how hard is it to slide it off the round equalizer bar in the rear, I can blow air through it pretty well, lot of dirt and stuff came out, wondering if that will be seized. I just don't want to spend the summer working on this.
If I do decide to pull the sprocket and go after the frame, how hard is it to slide it off the round equalizer bar in the rear, I can blow air through it pretty well, lot of dirt and stuff came out, wondering if that will be seized. I just don't want to spend the summer working on this.
67 JD 350
Re: Cross bar bolts
Hey I fully understand and don't blame you for just welding this thing to finish what you need done. The sprocket is just held on to a hub on the final drive. Remove the bolts and smack the back side with a large hammer and it should pop off the hub. It is a close fit so you may have to get a little bit brutal to knock it off.
As for welding this up? If it is as bad as you say then you would most likely need to replace both track frames and the cross bar to fix it back to original. You can bore these and go 7/8 on the size but it is a lot of work. You're not going to hurt anything by welding it up solid. It can always be cut back off.
You just need to look at how bad you need this machine and how far you want to go on repairs. I'm a purest at heart and like to see things restored to as close to original as possible. But I also understand where you are coming from. You just want your house built and the dirt work done.
Repairs on old iron is not cheap or easy so I would say this is totally up to you. Good luck and let us know how you come out.
As for welding this up? If it is as bad as you say then you would most likely need to replace both track frames and the cross bar to fix it back to original. You can bore these and go 7/8 on the size but it is a lot of work. You're not going to hurt anything by welding it up solid. It can always be cut back off.
You just need to look at how bad you need this machine and how far you want to go on repairs. I'm a purest at heart and like to see things restored to as close to original as possible. But I also understand where you are coming from. You just want your house built and the dirt work done.
Repairs on old iron is not cheap or easy so I would say this is totally up to you. Good luck and let us know how you come out.
40 plus years working on JD 350s, 400Gs, 450s and other equipment both Ag and Construction.
Re: Cross bar bolts
Like the man says in his signature, lol, no such thing as a cheap crawler. It's like a Haz mat site, the more you dig the more you find.
got it all torn down, track bar off, bored and tapped to 7/8 and the rollers are pretty much toast. I have 2 that I acquired from a guy parting a machine, 2 on the machine not bad and 1 left thats shot. This is just the left side so I assume other side will be just as bad or worse. Any way I will get a roller somewhere and put it back together. I plan to make small welds at each bolt attachment point and either tack the bolts or strap them together. The purist concept I understand but I can't see staying true to what must be a design flaw from the beginning seeing so many of these fail. If I were doing a show tractor then yeah I understand. Those 7/8 bolts basically kiss in there so close together and the meat that left on the old track bars is suspect. As far as my cross bar it's not bad on this side but the other side is really wallowed out so will have to weld that side. If I had more time I would weld up the cross bar holes and rebore them. Maybe down the line some day. So is there much welding the track bar on will effect in future maintenance needs, can the finals be removed with the track bars in place. I saw 1 video where a guy cut the end of the track bar off to get a final off and he was going to weld it back in place. I was curious if that was the only way? Also is it in any way possible and cost effective to rebuild the track rollers, or is it best to find used or buy new?
Really have to figure out how to post pictures, Lavoy I will contact you on setting that up or if you see this please advise.
got it all torn down, track bar off, bored and tapped to 7/8 and the rollers are pretty much toast. I have 2 that I acquired from a guy parting a machine, 2 on the machine not bad and 1 left thats shot. This is just the left side so I assume other side will be just as bad or worse. Any way I will get a roller somewhere and put it back together. I plan to make small welds at each bolt attachment point and either tack the bolts or strap them together. The purist concept I understand but I can't see staying true to what must be a design flaw from the beginning seeing so many of these fail. If I were doing a show tractor then yeah I understand. Those 7/8 bolts basically kiss in there so close together and the meat that left on the old track bars is suspect. As far as my cross bar it's not bad on this side but the other side is really wallowed out so will have to weld that side. If I had more time I would weld up the cross bar holes and rebore them. Maybe down the line some day. So is there much welding the track bar on will effect in future maintenance needs, can the finals be removed with the track bars in place. I saw 1 video where a guy cut the end of the track bar off to get a final off and he was going to weld it back in place. I was curious if that was the only way? Also is it in any way possible and cost effective to rebuild the track rollers, or is it best to find used or buy new?
Really have to figure out how to post pictures, Lavoy I will contact you on setting that up or if you see this please advise.
67 JD 350
Re: Cross bar bolts
As far as welding the cross bar?? No, you won't effect much in the final drive removal. There is a lengthy procedure for that that I won't go into here. But basically you hang the final and rotate it out and around the end of the frame. Or... if you want to be brutal you can cut the end of the track frame off and then either leave it off or weld it back on. Most of the newer machines don't have the extension on them.
You can rebuild the rollers but you end up with as much money in them as you will if you just buy a roller. Select used or check here with Lavoy for new ones.
I have to agree on the design issue with the way Deere fastened the track frames to this series of crawler. We have to remember that in their world they look at a machine life of about 20 to 25 years. These older 350s are 50 to 60 years old now. So they would argue if it is a design flaw or not.
They see any longer than their designated machine life as being on borrowed time. And they all do it no matter if it is Deere or whoever. I have worked on all of them and have cussed each and every one of them for their stupidity. Deere did correct this issue on later machines but it was only after all the techs and dealer owners demanded it. Later 450s and the 400G had direct bolt cross bars and the old bushing style design was done away with.
The reason they did this in the first place was for a condition known as "Track Shock." Track shock can occur in many ways but most comes from sudden jolts from end to end or side to side. Deere used this bolt and bushing system to give the track frames a place to absorb this shock. They looked at it as it being a maintenance item for the owner to replace every once in a while. Most of which were ignored and the result is what you have. Wallowed out frames and cross bars. I know a lot of guys who made weld in bushings which eliminate the issue. Something to consider perhaps.
You can rebuild the rollers but you end up with as much money in them as you will if you just buy a roller. Select used or check here with Lavoy for new ones.
I have to agree on the design issue with the way Deere fastened the track frames to this series of crawler. We have to remember that in their world they look at a machine life of about 20 to 25 years. These older 350s are 50 to 60 years old now. So they would argue if it is a design flaw or not.
They see any longer than their designated machine life as being on borrowed time. And they all do it no matter if it is Deere or whoever. I have worked on all of them and have cussed each and every one of them for their stupidity. Deere did correct this issue on later machines but it was only after all the techs and dealer owners demanded it. Later 450s and the 400G had direct bolt cross bars and the old bushing style design was done away with.
The reason they did this in the first place was for a condition known as "Track Shock." Track shock can occur in many ways but most comes from sudden jolts from end to end or side to side. Deere used this bolt and bushing system to give the track frames a place to absorb this shock. They looked at it as it being a maintenance item for the owner to replace every once in a while. Most of which were ignored and the result is what you have. Wallowed out frames and cross bars. I know a lot of guys who made weld in bushings which eliminate the issue. Something to consider perhaps.
40 plus years working on JD 350s, 400Gs, 450s and other equipment both Ag and Construction.
Re: Cross bar bolts
Thanks Leonard, good point on life expectancy and how old these are. I was under the impression these went out early but admittedly never been near one with low hours. I only put bolts back in, no bushings and saw no evidence of bushings. I am thinking about using a heavy washer or machinery bushing as a washer on the horizontal bolts underneath and welding that bushing to the crossbar to help with the oblong hole.
Anyway have to get 1 roller to put this side back together
On the roller guards they have I think 5 pipe bushings between them with carriage bolts keeping the guards together, mine are loose and bolts are shot. Did not see any similar carriage bolt this long in grade 8, do you know if these bolts have to be hardened? Seems like everything else is.
Anyway have to get 1 roller to put this side back together
On the roller guards they have I think 5 pipe bushings between them with carriage bolts keeping the guards together, mine are loose and bolts are shot. Did not see any similar carriage bolt this long in grade 8, do you know if these bolts have to be hardened? Seems like everything else is.
67 JD 350
Re: Cross bar bolts
It would be better if you can find hardened bolts for the rock guard spacers. Mostly because those take a beating with rocks that get up in between the track and rollers.
Deere would probably still have them but it is hard telling what they would want as far as price. You never know with these machine companies. They may be reasonable or more likely they would be outrageous.
Grainger or McMaster Carr would be a great source for those. You may find them select used at a machine salvage yard. And Lavoy may even have a source on them as well. Grade fives will work but will not last as long.
Deere would probably still have them but it is hard telling what they would want as far as price. You never know with these machine companies. They may be reasonable or more likely they would be outrageous.
Grainger or McMaster Carr would be a great source for those. You may find them select used at a machine salvage yard. And Lavoy may even have a source on them as well. Grade fives will work but will not last as long.
40 plus years working on JD 350s, 400Gs, 450s and other equipment both Ag and Construction.
Re: Cross bar bolts
I thought I should add that those bolts don't have to be carriage bolts either. They can be a standard cap bolt but I would still stay with grade eight in strength.
40 plus years working on JD 350s, 400Gs, 450s and other equipment both Ag and Construction.
Re: Cross bar bolts
Ended up I tacked the carriage head with the welder and heated the hex nut with a torch and snugged it up while it was hot, only way I could get them to turn without breaking. it's fine for now.
I have the left track bar all repaired and back in. Found it just as easy to weld the holes up and rebore them then tap, I went up to 7/8" grade 8. My vertical bolts dropped right in the cross bar, the horizontal underneath were pretty wallowd out so I machined some heavy duty washers and bolted them up. I will weld around the perimeter of the washers so bolts can't move.
I weled the cross bars just about 1inc at each corner of the vertical bolts , them locked the bolts by welding round stock across them so they can't turn. It is done so it can easily be cut out if the need arises to remove track bars again.
I have come up with a scheme to repair the right side track bar in place. The underside horizontal bolts are gone or sheared off but not before really egging the cross bar. I intend to take aluminum 3/4" round bar and drill it up the center, I will then put it in the holes of the cross bars as the tops seem to be original location. Then I can fill the voids with weld right around them. after it cools they may or may not pound out, but if not I can easily drill them back out and enlarge to 7/8". Theory is I have used aluminum as a backer for welding voids many times, it won't fuse to the 7018, cant see why it would be any different in a bore. By center drilling first I will have a straight pilot to drill and as long as I place them square and straight should leave me with a better bore in the cross bar than I have now.
I also intend to strip the track bar of rock guards and rollers to fit it, lot lighter to pop on and off till I get it all fixed up.
I have the left track bar all repaired and back in. Found it just as easy to weld the holes up and rebore them then tap, I went up to 7/8" grade 8. My vertical bolts dropped right in the cross bar, the horizontal underneath were pretty wallowd out so I machined some heavy duty washers and bolted them up. I will weld around the perimeter of the washers so bolts can't move.
I weled the cross bars just about 1inc at each corner of the vertical bolts , them locked the bolts by welding round stock across them so they can't turn. It is done so it can easily be cut out if the need arises to remove track bars again.
I have come up with a scheme to repair the right side track bar in place. The underside horizontal bolts are gone or sheared off but not before really egging the cross bar. I intend to take aluminum 3/4" round bar and drill it up the center, I will then put it in the holes of the cross bars as the tops seem to be original location. Then I can fill the voids with weld right around them. after it cools they may or may not pound out, but if not I can easily drill them back out and enlarge to 7/8". Theory is I have used aluminum as a backer for welding voids many times, it won't fuse to the 7018, cant see why it would be any different in a bore. By center drilling first I will have a straight pilot to drill and as long as I place them square and straight should leave me with a better bore in the cross bar than I have now.
I also intend to strip the track bar of rock guards and rollers to fit it, lot lighter to pop on and off till I get it all fixed up.
67 JD 350
Re: Cross bar bolts
Well the aluminum slug trick worked great and the holes on the front cross bar are now much better. Wish I had the picture thing worked out.
Now I found on 1 side the rear round cross bar is mounted with a steel block that is a half round held on by (4) 5/8" x 4" bolts. 3 of course were sheard off in the final drive housing but I was able to extract them clean up with a tap and put 4 new bolts in. Does anyone know the torque spec for the rear cross bar retaining bolts, I have looked high and low in my manual and it has everything but those 4 bolts?
Now I found on 1 side the rear round cross bar is mounted with a steel block that is a half round held on by (4) 5/8" x 4" bolts. 3 of course were sheard off in the final drive housing but I was able to extract them clean up with a tap and put 4 new bolts in. Does anyone know the torque spec for the rear cross bar retaining bolts, I have looked high and low in my manual and it has everything but those 4 bolts?
67 JD 350
Re: Cross bar bolts
I don't have a 350 Service Manual to look at, but most manuals had a standard torque chart in them for use on hardware that they did not give specific torques for. I think you will find it in the General section of the manual.
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