Aw nuts! Blade cylinders

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Bret4207
440 crawler
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Aw nuts! Blade cylinders

Post by Bret4207 » Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:25 am

Finally got the 420 blade cylinders out to the hydraulic shop (70 miles one way). Long story short, they're trashed. Shop says it looks like there was a lot of water in them for many years. Scored and pitted bad. Initial estimate for a "cheap" honing and rebuild with ZERO assurance they won't leak as bad as before is over $500. for the pair. Not going that route. Any recommendation on replacement cylinders? I haven't measured bore and stroke yet, but common 2 way cylinders should work, should they not?
40C, 420C, 1010C-L-BH, Cat D4

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Lavoy
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Re: Aw nuts! Blade cylinders

Post by Lavoy » Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:18 pm

Assuming you are talking about a 62 blade? No replacement cylinders exist, nothing common works without butchering the blade. BUT, barrel material is not that expensive I don't think, have not looked at doing it in years. Or, I might have a used barrel on hand.
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Parts and restoration for antique and late model John Deere crawlers.
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Bret4207
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Re: Aw nuts! Blade cylinders

Post by Bret4207 » Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:14 am

Not sure on blade model Lavoy. 2 cylinders, straight blade, inside mount. What is so special about the JD cylinders? Stroke?
40C, 420C, 1010C-L-BH, Cat D4

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Lavoy
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Re: Aw nuts! Blade cylinders

Post by Lavoy » Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:34 am

We need to determine if it is a Deere blade first, doesn't sound like it if it is only a straight blade.
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hydrogeo
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Re: Aw nuts! Blade cylinders

Post by hydrogeo » Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:59 am

I scored a nice blade for my 40c but one of the cylinders had similar water damage. I pulled it apart, and rigged up an engine cylinder hone on a piece of threaded rod and honed it myself. Packing looked half way decent so I ran with that. It's far from perfect, but for $0 invested it's good enough for what I do with my machine.

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Bret4207
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Re: Aw nuts! Blade cylinders

Post by Bret4207 » Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:49 am

Lavoy, my bad, I forgot it does angle side to side but not horizontally. I'm sure it's a JD blade.
40C, 420C, 1010C-L-BH, Cat D4

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Lavoy
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Re: Aw nuts! Blade cylinders

Post by Lavoy » Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:33 pm

Out side arm, or inside the tracks?
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Stan Disbrow
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Re: Aw nuts! Blade cylinders

Post by Stan Disbrow » Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:48 pm

Hi,

Does it look like mine?

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4674

A model 62?

Only one cylinder, but looks like the two on the 62? A model 61?

Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!

Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside manual blade
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Ray III
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Re: Aw nuts! Blade cylinders

Post by Ray III » Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:02 pm

This is a model 62 blade.
Image

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Lu47Dan
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Re: Aw nuts! Blade cylinders

Post by Lu47Dan » Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:04 am

First things first,
Cylinder type.
There are two major types of hydraulic cylinders and a minor one, so three total.
Type A
Welded, these cylinders have the barrel welded to the base, foot, or cast clevis end. The rod end is either another welded on piece or the end of the barrel is machined to retain the seal, etc.
These can be rebuilt from just the ends and the rod assembly by removing the old damaged tube and making a new barrel for it. Not cheap but if done correctly you have a new cylinder.
Type B
Tie rod, these cylinders use 4 rods to hold the cylinder together, most can be readily rebuilt in the field wiyh very few tools.
Type C
These are the minor type
Cast or machined cylinder bodies, limited in length of stroke. These cylinders cannot be saved if the pitting inside them is extensive or deep,
There was a process,in that a sleeve was installed in these cylinders. The cylinder was bored out about a 1/16", honed to size, the liner sleeve cut and machined to size, the cylinder body heated to about 300°f, the liner chilled in liquid nitrogen to shrink it, then dropped into the heated cylinder. Once the cylinder was back to room temperature the final machining was done. But IIRC, it did not catch on as it was machine tool heavy (costly), not enough business, dangerous, and the developing company discontinued the sales of the special tubing.
A friends father had the manuals and flyers on the process, but he and his collection are long gone.
My 420 has cast cylinder bodies from the factory, with a Greenville Steel Car blade.
1956 420C with GSC blade
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Jim B
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Re: Aw nuts! Blade cylinders

Post by Jim B » Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:32 am

Bret4207,

Simple way, If you don't see your blade in any of the photos posted; post photos of yours. A couple of the crawler/blade and a closer view of the cylinder would be good. If you haven't got set up with a log in to the picture server yet send me a PM here and I'll send you an email to use to send them to me and I'll post them for you.

You can find info on the picture server, and getting access to it, on the Messageboard Q&A and Announcement Forum.

Jim

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Bret4207
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Re: Aw nuts! Blade cylinders

Post by Bret4207 » Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:47 am

Inside arms, 2 cylinders, manual swing to right and left. Cylinders are tie rod type.

Pics in this post- viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9932&p=54104#p54104
40C, 420C, 1010C-L-BH, Cat D4

Jim B
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Re: Aw nuts! Blade cylinders

Post by Jim B » Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:05 am

Bret4207,

That should be a Model 62 dozer. The ID tag should be riveted to the surface of the upright member below the rear of the right lift cylinder, unless it has been torn off or destroyed. Those are common cylinders and you should be able to find used ones (Lavoy mentioned he might have one). A good hydraulic, or machine shop, can likely get tube stock to replace the barrels. Those are a simple cylinder to rebuild yourself, sealing components are readily available, I'd be quite sure Lavoy has those as well. Take one apart and take the barrel to a shop and see what they give you for a price on just barrels. Where are you located? Someone near you might have some ideas of places.

Jim

dtoots1
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Re: Aw nuts! Blade cylinders

Post by dtoots1 » Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:32 am

those cylinders appear to be just like the ones on my jd440ic...i have recently had them rebuilt as shown in my other posts...1st one shop did it for too much...$380..which included set of new seals etc for other cylinder at $50..which i did myself..
go to hydraulic shop and get new cups etc...and those are definitely jd cyls and are critical to keep!!!!!!

by the way who out there knows what this spray welding??? i hear about used for repairing rust pits..etc???

Jim B
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Re: Aw nuts! Blade cylinders

Post by Jim B » Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:34 pm

To the discussion about a non-tilting option in your 2015 post. In looking closely at the picture (in that post), showing the back of the blade on the left side, I can see the bottom guide, on the blade, that the pivot would have set into. It also looks like some old welds in an arc near the top of the blade, above the box the push arm is in, which would have been the location of the top guide for the pivot. The box the arm is in is someone's fabrication. My thoughts are you have a # 62 Bulldozer that angled and tilted originally. At some point in its life, prior to your getting it, I am guessing part of the pivoting assembly got broken or worn to the point it wouldn't stay together. The owner at the time decided to do away with the "tilt" adjustment and manufactured the fixed points you now have for the push arms. The parts catalog for the # 62 is PC-545.

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