450 Project

Post support questions about your JD350 and newer crawler here
Post Reply
450FiveString
MC crawler
MC crawler
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2016 3:23 pm
Location: Tennessee

450 Project

Post by 450FiveString » Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:08 pm

I've had this dozer for a while. It starts and runs good. It will move in all 4 gears and the shuttle shift works but the right brake stops the dozer when pulled. I can manage to turn right by bumping the brake. The left brake works fairly well. It also stops if I try to push much. The engine doesn't lug or drop rpm. I have to put the shuttle in reverse to get it to move again. It has some other problems that will need fixing. The pic shows a crack on the right frame rail where it bolts to the transmission. The left frame rail has no bolts in the top holes. Don't know if they've fallen out or broken off. There are no bolts attaching the right side of the front crossbar to the track rail (someone tried to weld it). Where should I start? How much disassembly will I need to do to get the frame rail out for repair?


Image

Jim B
1010 crawler
1010 crawler
Posts: 254
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:36 am
Location: western Maine

Re: 450 Project

Post by Jim B » Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:49 am

Good morning,

First things first, so the folks looking at this know for sure what model 450 you have. What is the full model and serial number from the machine's serial number tag? You say shuttle shift meaning the Hi-Lo-Reverse transmission correct? Inside or outside blade? These things may make a difference on some of the answers/advice you get. Do you have the manuals for this machine? If you do not, that is the first place to start in my opinion. You should have the Operator’s and Technical manuals for your crawler. Some like to have their own printed copy of the parts catalog, or you can use the JD on line parts catalog and print out pages as you need. https://partsadvisor.deere.com/ . Operator's and Service/Technical manuals are pretty much purchase items - not free to see on line. Studying the manuals will help you better understand how things relate in the drive train.

Stan Disbrow has a good post in the FAQ section (about the 17th post down) listing the JD manuals' part numbers for a number of machines. You can see manual numbers there for a number of 450 models. I believe Lavoy (postmaster@jdcrawlers.com) has manuals for sale in is shop, so he might have them for you. JD sells their manuals (printed, discs, or downloads) direct at http://www.johndeeretechinfo.com . Search in the construction equipment section for the 450 models.

I managed to see your photo by opening it in a new tab, it didn't open in your post for me. The jdcrawlers website has a dedicated picture server, you have to contact Lavoy Wilcox (postmaster@jdcrawlers.com) to get set up with user name and password to use it. Lavoy is the owner of the site and he sells parts and repairs the vintage JDs.

My first thoughts from your descriptions of the issues you posted is: you may have engine clutch issues and/or steering clutch/brake issues, along with a bunch of frame and broken bolt issues. Does the machine stop all forward movement if you are pushing hard, and not using the steering clutches, without a drop in engine rpm? When you pull a "steering lever" it is first supposed to be disengaging a steering clutch then, applying the steering brake. (The foot brake pedal should apply both brakes evenly. It does not release the steering clutches.) On the bolt issues you need to physically see if they are just missing, holes are stripped, or bolts are broken off in them. It could be any one of these problems or some of each, that you have to figure out by hands on checking. Folks here will have ideas to fix once the type of problem is confirmed. The level of disassembly needed will come from full diagnosis of the findings; for both the drive train issues and the broken parts. Depending on your welding skills it might be possible to make that frame repair without disassembly.

Sorry if it sounds like I'm busting your chops. If you follow forums you see a lot of general things thrown out and after alot of given and take something gets posted that reveals there was some basic info missing in the very beginning, which would have changed the whole train of the post. Just trying to avoid that for you.


Jim

450FiveString
MC crawler
MC crawler
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2016 3:23 pm
Location: Tennessee

Re: 450 Project

Post by 450FiveString » Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:47 am

Thanks Jim, the dozer is a straight 450, 1970 I think. I looked it up when I got it but can't remember off hand and I do have manuals (tech, part & operator). It has a straight blade, manual tilt. I tried to attach pics but I'm afraid I don't understand how to post them yet. psprague posted some instructions for me yesterday but so far it's over my head. And the dozer does stop completely when pushing hard without a change in rpm but it will move fine in all gears (at least on level ground, haven't tried a grade). It is a high/low/reverse transmission.Image

Jim B
1010 crawler
1010 crawler
Posts: 254
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:36 am
Location: western Maine

Re: 450 Project

Post by Jim B » Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:18 pm

Since you have the manuals I would say start by checking, and adjusting as needed, the engine clutch, the steering clutches/steering brakes, and foot brake. Eliminate the adjustments as the issue with any of those things.

I think the key to the photo size when you post it is to be sure the img line says "normal". If I remember right I had to delete thumbnail and type normal in its place.

450FiveString
MC crawler
MC crawler
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2016 3:23 pm
Location: Tennessee

Re: 450 Project

Post by 450FiveString » Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:49 pm

Thanks again Jim. That's what I plan to do but one of the first things I tried was to adjust the clutch and I think there's a problem. The adjustment screw is bottomed out which also makes me think that the engine clutch may need replacing. But before I pull it completely apart I just wanted to make sure I'm not missing anything and get some opinions from those who know much more than I do about this. Here's a pick (I hope) of the clutch pedal and adjustment screw.Image

Randynscottsboro
430 crawler
430 crawler
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:36 pm
Location: Scottsboro, Al

Re: 450 Project

Post by Randynscottsboro » Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:25 am

Hi banjo, Where in Tn. are you located? I am in Scottsboro, Al. close to Tn line and from Tn originally. I have a straight 450 that I am working on too and looking for parts or a parts machine. Do you know of any in your area?
Randy
440 ICD
1120 JD
Case SC
3510 Ford
2030 JD
450B JD

450FiveString
MC crawler
MC crawler
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2016 3:23 pm
Location: Tennessee

Re: 450 Project

Post by 450FiveString » Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:56 am

I'm in Lincoln county (Fayetteville). No, unfortunately I don't know of anything close to me that's available for parts. I'm always looking on Craigslist and other market places though. If I see anything I'll try and let you know.

Jim B
1010 crawler
1010 crawler
Posts: 254
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:36 am
Location: western Maine

Re: 450 Project

Post by Jim B » Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:29 am

Good morning,

A couple more questions to review. What do you currently have for free play at the clutch pedal? You say the clutch adjusting screw is bottomed out, or is it seized further down in the linkage from not being moved? Did you try turning it? It sets in a detent lock, as shown in your photo, and “loosens” to get more free play (Always end adjustment with the screw in a detent position).

450FiveString
MC crawler
MC crawler
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2016 3:23 pm
Location: Tennessee

Re: 450 Project

Post by 450FiveString » Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:40 am

I'll have to check that Jim. It's been a while since I looked at that but the best I remember free play is one of the first things to do when making adjustments and I couldn't get the free play right because I had no more adjustment but I'll make the checks you've suggested this weekend.

450FiveString
MC crawler
MC crawler
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2016 3:23 pm
Location: Tennessee

Re: 450 Project

Post by 450FiveString » Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:44 am

Just so I understand. Free play is the distance the clutch pedal should move before you begin to feel the throw out move, correct?

450FiveString
MC crawler
MC crawler
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2016 3:23 pm
Location: Tennessee

Re: 450 Project

Post by 450FiveString » Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:00 am

Just so I understand. Free play is the distance the clutch pedal should move before you begin to feel the throw out move, correct?

Jim B
1010 crawler
1010 crawler
Posts: 254
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:36 am
Location: western Maine

Re: 450 Project

Post by Jim B » Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:13 pm

Right. Measure from the top of the pedal to a point in direction of travel, move the pedal until you feel it touch the throwout bearing and measure between the same points you used before and that is the free play travel.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests