JD450C - What engine do I have? Need to source filters

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cjhusky
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JD450C - What engine do I have? Need to source filters

Post by cjhusky » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:17 am

Hi guys;

Brand new to this board. I've owned this early 70's JD 450C crawler/loader for 10+ years, but it's been sitting for the past 3 years unused. I want to bring it out and begin restoring it to be a useful machine for me around the property, but as I said it's not been started in appx. 3 years. I need to get some parts for it, like oil filter, air filter, etc....but I'm not certain what engine I have and what air filter to buy for it (need a part number). Is anyone able to help me identify the engine and the air filter part? Would love to know the year, if you can tell from the serial numbers.

Attaching photos. Can't see to find the location of any sort of serial number on the engine?

Any advice would be really appreciated.

Lastly, I need to pull the raidator. Sorry for the newbie question, as I've done little work on this machine...how do I drop the front of the unit that surrounds the radiator? There are FOUR bolts across the bottom and a bracket about a third of the way up the front. Is there a way to loosen the brackets and lower it down, as it appears super heavy to completely unbolt.

Thanks in advance for the review of my newbie questions :(

Regards,
Chris

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Jim B
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Re: JD450C - What engine do I have? Need to source filters

Post by Jim B » Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:08 am

Welcome to the Board,

This is a good group of folks and there is a lot of knowledge and experience here. Lavoy who owns this site works on JD crawlers, more the older ones than the current ones. He is a great resource and also sells parts and supplies for these machines. First thing is your serial number. I believe the tag you posted the photo of is the loader attachment serial number, not the actual crawler which is most important. Check the panel below your seat for a tag, likely near your left calf when you are sitting in the seat. That will be the machine serial number, which is used in the parts catalogs for reference. It should read like " T 5E3M ###### T ". If the engine serial number tag is on the engine it will be located below and to the rear of the fuel transfer pump mounting boss on the right side of the cylinder block. Left, right, front and rear are based on sitting in the seat, just like a car. Be prepared, I think you will find you have a straight 450, not a "C" model from looking at your photos.

The filters are pretty standard and shouldn't be a problem for you to obtain at JD or a good parts store. Do you have any manuals for the machine? If so which ones do you have? Once you have the right serial number and ID the model for certain you can view the parts catalog for it on line at JDParts Home Page or JD Parts Advisor. Operators and service/Technical Manuals are pretty much purchase items, not much free on line for those manuals. Get your machine serial number and post it. I'll make a filter list for you, as it is colder here right now than I have any need to go out and play in.

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jsal
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Re: JD450C - What engine do I have? Need to source filters

Post by jsal » Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:44 am

I find that the filters from the dealer are cheaper than most auto parts stores so I use them all of the time !!

JIM

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Re: JD450C - What engine do I have? Need to source filters

Post by scampr » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:51 pm

I think you better be careful about calling it a 450c i think its a 450 the 450C i believe has it on the plate as a 450C C
scampr 440icd, 350B, 47 Farmall H, 55 Farmall cub and ashamed to have a Kabota too

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Re: JD450C - What engine do I have? Need to source filters

Post by cjhusky » Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:18 pm

Jim B wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:08 am
Check the panel below your seat for a tag, likely near your left calf when you are sitting in the seat. That will be the machine serial number, which is used in the parts catalogs for reference. It should read like " T 5E3M ###### T ". If the engine serial number tag is on the engine it will be located below and to the rear of the fuel transfer pump mounting boss on the right side of the cylinder block. Left, right, front and rear are based on sitting in the seat, just like a car. Be prepared, I think you will find you have a straight 450, not a "C" model from looking at your photos.

The filters are pretty standard and shouldn't be a problem for you to obtain at JD or a good parts store. Do you have any manuals for the machine? If so which ones do you have? Once you have the right serial number and ID the model for certain you can view the parts catalog for it on line at JDParts Home Page or JD Parts Advisor. Operators and service/Technical Manuals are pretty much purchase items, not much free on line for those manuals. Get your machine serial number and post it. I'll make a filter list for you, as it is colder here right now than I have any need to go out and play in.
Thank you, thank you, thank you for the reply Jim! You are correct, I must have given you the crawler number. I did find the serial number under th seat, but on the right side. On the left there is a circular hole (photo below) where it appears a cover plate has been removed and ot replaced? Don't think that was ever a serial number since they look threaded.

I cleaned up the serial number plate and you were EXACTLY correct. It reads (T 5E3M 075X1XT?)...where the first "X" looks to be an 8 or a 3, and the second "X" could be a 6?. I'm just guessing it ends in "T", as you surmised. Any additional good ways to definitively cleanup that serial number as a last effort to ensure I have it right? I posted a photo in case someone is a guru in interpreting these things. So what does that mean I have (Year, model, and engine?).

I also took another shot of the engine and there's two serial numbers (one on the block and one on the header pipe at the top. The engine serial number clearly shows T26933. Is that a Turbo?

Once I get the year and model, plus engine details, I'll get online as you suggested to look at the JDParts stuff.

Again, I REALLY appreciate the help and I'll definitely pay it forward! And I'm happy to order parts from online where it supports folks that help on this forum. You mentioned "Lavoy"?

Thanks again,
Chris

Under Seat
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Machine Serial Number [(T 5E3M 075X1XT?)...where the first "X" looks to be an 8 or a 3, and the second "X" could be a 6?. I'm just guessing it ends in "T"]
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Engine Right Side
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T26933 (Engine Serial Number)
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Re: JD450C - What engine do I have? Need to source filters

Post by cjhusky » Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:20 pm

scampr wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:51 pm
I think you better be careful about calling it a 450c i think its a 450 the 450C i believe has it on the plate as a 450C C
I think you're right scampr. Of course it was sold to me as a "450C", but I think that's a dubious way to say...oh ya...I meant a 450 Crawler! :). I just posted the serisl number info, which I hope sheds some light with folks that may know. Any advice would be welcomed.

Thanks for the reply!

-Chris

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Re: JD450C - What engine do I have? Need to source filters

Post by Jim B » Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:24 pm

Hi Chris,

Here is the serial number breakdown by the book and a filter list.

Machine serial number breakdown:

T= Tractor
5= JD450
E= Crawler Loader
3= Diesel (This would be 202 cu.in. originally)
M= Transmission (Hi-Lo-Reverse)
Serial number: 075316 ( that number falls in the 1968 build range by the list of 450 serial numbers on the FAQ forum here)
T= (Build location) John Deere Dubuque Works

The numbers are stamped in that tag so you are safe to clean it gently with some solvent and fine emery cloth to get rid of the paint. Monitor progress as you work on it as to not go too far on the lightly stamped numbers.

John Deere filter part numbers from the parts catalog:

1 - Engine oil filter: T19044 (Multiple brands cross this)
1 - Air Filter: AR39798 (Multiple brands cross this)
2 - Fuel Filters: AT17387 (Multiple brands cross this) (If you use a Wix 33166 or NAPA 3166, be sure the top gasket is up in the housing, NOT in the “groove” just inside the top rim of the element. The 4 slots in that groove are the fuel outlets for the filter.)
1 – Hydraulic filter: AT45422 (Multiple brands cross this)
1 - Transmission (HLR Transmission) filter: T19044 (Multiple brands cross this)

The number (T26933) you found cast in the is just a casting number not a serial number. The engine serial number would be on a metal tag like the machine and loader tags. It should have been riveted on the flat spot opposite the fuel pump form that casting number. You may find rivet holes over there if you clean that area. I would say there is the possibility it might be a replacement block if there is no tag or holes.

You do not have a turbo charged engine.


I believe the Operator's manual for your machine is OMT32592. The Service manual is SM2064. You can check these out at http://www.johndeeretechinfo.com

The free on-line parts catalogs are at https://partsadvisor.deere.com or at JDPart: Homepage. The parts catalog for your crawler is PC922 and the loader is PC927.


Lavoy maybe able to help you out on manuals. You can send him an email at: postmaster@jdcrawler.com. Manuals cost but are money well spent in my opinion. Some people want printed manuals; some want disc or download and print pages as they go.

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Re: JD450C - What engine do I have? Need to source filters

Post by B Town » Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:32 pm

Hello Sir,

Under the heading “crawler talk” there is FAQ section, about 4-5 threads done Stan has Serial Number ranges for 450 Straight - G series. Your 075xxx SN is in the 1968 range 65,000- 82,275. Your final drives have a triangle cover on them, toward the front of the tractor on the final drives held with 3 bolts. This is the most obvious way to tell it isn’t a C series. The C series doesn’t have this cover. The first serial plate is for your equipment attached to the tractor. The round hole under your left foot at the operator station is for an electric hour meter. I believe they were made by Motorola. The tag under your right foot is the tractor model and SN. The model appears “re-stamped”, I don’t know the significance of that. But it is definitely different in character compared to the SN stamp. Different style and different depth/wear pattern. I believe your engine is JD 300 series. I think 4219. Definitely not turbo. Your engine is missing it’s aluminum SN tag, it is held with 2 rivets between the alternator and the fuel filters. The number cast in the block is JD part number for block identification not a SN. As stated earlier, dealers are the best for filter that are correct.

Best regards, Bruce

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Re: JD450C - What engine do I have? Need to source filters

Post by B Town » Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:42 pm

Jim B types faster than me . hahahahah. Really like the 4 in 1 bucket! More pics!!!

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Re: JD450C - What engine do I have? Need to source filters

Post by cjhusky » Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:43 pm

Wow guys (Bruce and Jim)!!...I could have not asked for more thorough informaiton and this certainly gets me started in the right direction. Sounds like the engine is either the factory 4202 or a 4219...still need to get to the bottom of that one.

I am now attempting to remove the hard nose, hopefully without injuring myself ;). There are 3 bolts on each side attached to the main bracket and then what appears to be a support bracket below that, with two smaller bolts mounting it to the frame with a pin, also on both sides. And then there are 4 bolts straight across the bottom, which go into the flat plate under the pan. I just want to remove things in the right order and make sure I properly support it, so it does not fall and do any damage.

Definitely will be buying the service manuals, soon!

I posted a new thread about trying to remove the hard nose, since I searched and could not find any good advice.

Would love to know if you guys have any thoughts

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=12575

Thanks,
Chris

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Re: JD450C - What engine do I have? Need to source filters

Post by B Town » Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:47 pm

Do you need to remove the nose completely. If you remove all fasterners but the metal straps with bolts on both sides of both right and left frame rails. These straps act as a pivot point and lets the nose tips forward quite a few degrees, giving looks of room for most projects. Bruce

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Re: JD450C - What engine do I have? Need to source filters

Post by cjhusky » Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:57 pm

B Town wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:32 pm
I believe your engine is JD 300 series. I think 4219. Definitely not turbo. Your engine is missing it’s aluminum SN tag, it is held with 2 rivets between the alternator and the fuel filters. The number cast in the block is JD part number for block identification not a SN. As stated earlier, dealers are the best for filter that are correct.
Thanks Bruce! What leads you to believe the engine is a JD 300 series and 4219, vs the 4202 that I had thought was factory in the 1968 450 straight Crawler? Just curious.

On the engine serial numbner, should I keep looking, or can you definitively tell that it's not there from the photo? I'm not 100% certain where to keep looking.

Lastly, given that I'm still guessing, what info will the dealers need to be able to source the right filters? Jim sent me some numbers earlier and for lack of additional info, I'm going to start there, since I'm guessing you guys are far more knowledgeable on these older tractors than I'm going to find when I phone the dealer

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Re: JD450C - What engine do I have? Need to source filters

Post by cjhusky » Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:12 pm

B Town wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:47 pm
Do you need to remove the nose completely. If you remove all fasterners but the metal straps with bolts on both sides of both right and left frame rails. These straps act as a pivot point and lets the nose tips forward quite a few degrees, giving looks of room for most projects. Bruce
I need to gain access to remove the radiator, since it's not holding pressure, so not sure if I need to remove it completely. I have a 310J backhoe on site, with chains, so I am supposing if there's a good lifting point, I can remove it entirely...but if that's not necesary, maybe as you say I can swing it out of the way. So are you saying I only need to remove the SIX bolts (three each side) and I can swing it down? How far will it swing? Or should I just chain it up and take it all the way off, given I have the other machine?

Thanks for the pointers!

-Chris

THREE bolts on the bracket connected to the hard nose
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Bracket/pin on lower part of the nose (both sides)
Image


FOUR bolts across bottom pan (flat on the bottom of the crawler)
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Re: JD450C - What engine do I have? Need to source filters

Post by Jim B » Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:15 pm

Hi Chris,

Those are the filter numbers for a 450 direct from the parts catalog, unless I transposed a number.

Like Bruce said I think your engine tag is missing, the attached photos is a 4276 engine but the tags are in the same location. I don't know if you can tell the difference in the 202 and 219 externally. Hopefully someone will have that answer and we will all gain some knowledge on the matter.

Unless you are sure the radiator is bad, if you had access to a radiator pressure tester you might find the problem without pulling the nose.
Jim

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Re: JD450C - What engine do I have? Need to source filters

Post by Jim B » Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:20 pm

Here is the missing photo of an engine tag.

Image

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