JD450 Hard Nose Removal

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cjhusky
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JD450 Hard Nose Removal

Post by cjhusky » Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:49 pm

About to jump outside in the weather and remove the hard nose on my (I "think" it is a 1968 straight 450 :? ). Are there any suggestions (i.e. tips/tricks) for a newbie on how to do this? It looks like 6 bolts and I will need an engine hoist or another tractor to lift it off safely? Is there a right order to it? Or a best place to anchor to it?

Sorry for the newbie questions...I do all my own auto work, but this is my first foray into rebuilding a diesel engine on a crawler,,,so I'm a sponge for any of you guys [or gals ;)] that have experience to pass along as I undertake this effort to restore a 50+ year old machine to working condition.

Thanks in advance...great messageboard!

-Chris

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Re: JD450 Hard Nose Removal

Post by Jim B » Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:00 pm

Safety first. If you are going to have your loader raised while you do this, use a safety support on at least one of the lift cylinder rams so it can't come down on you! If you don't currently have a support, get some heavy angle iron or have some 5/16" or 3/8" plate bent and make one. If your not familiar with what this is let us know and I or someone will detail it more for you. You should have one for regular service work in the future in any case.

The nose weighs about 300 pounds I believe. You have bolts on the sides and bottom as well as some of the brackets on the backside around the radiator. You should have a transmission filter in front of the radiator you need to get out of the way as well as a deflector at the bottom of the radiator. You should be able to put a strap down through the radiator service door and up around rear of the nose. If you have good supports under the loader boom some people set up and use the boom to hang rigging from to lift the nose.

Just curious what is wrong you need the nose off for? Radiator problem?

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cjhusky
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Re: JD450 Hard Nose Removal

Post by cjhusky » Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:03 am

Jim B wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:00 pm
Safety first. If you are going to have your loader raised while you do this, use a safety support on at least one of the lift cylinder rams so it can't come down on you! If you don't currently have a support, get some heavy angle iron or have some 5/16" or 3/8" plate bent and make one. If your not familiar with what this is let us know and I or someone will detail it more for you. You should have one for regular service work in the future in any case.

The nose weighs about 300 pounds I believe. You have bolts on the sides and bottom as well as some of the brackets on the backside around the radiator. You should have a transmission filter in front of the radiator you need to get out of the way as well as a deflector at the bottom of the radiator. You should be able to put a strap down through the radiator service door and up around rear of the nose. If you have good supports under the loader boom some people set up and use the boom to hang rigging from to lift the nose.
Came back inside and saw your post Jim...this is very close to what I did. Mother Mary and Joseph...this was a VERY HARD job for one person, but I got it out. I used a chain through the front, as you mentioned and hung it across the arms. Really would have been good to have a winch for this...I may buy one, as getting it back on could prove much harder than coming off. Getting around the transmission filter was the hardest/trickiest part. Only real mishap was that the top swung back after releasing the chain and I could not brace it, so it did damage a few radiator fins...although not sure I will even be keeping this radiator (more on that in a separate post, momentarily detailing my engine repair) At 53 years of age, I'm simply not as strong as I used to be and this thing was wieldy as all get out. But, as you can see...I did get it out...Whew! Proud of myself. Any tricks for getting it back in?

Front (With Nose Removed) - Left side and Right side
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Image

Nose Removed and placed next to Crawler
Image

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cjhusky
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Re: JD450 Hard Nose Removal

Post by cjhusky » Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:18 am

Jim B wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:00 pm
Safety first. If you are going to have your loader raised while you do this, use a safety support on at least one of the lift cylinder rams so it can't come down on you! If you don't currently have a support, get some heavy angle iron or have some 5/16" or 3/8" plate bent and make one. If your not familiar with what this is let us know and I or someone will detail it more for you. You should have one for regular service work in the future in any case.
Hi Jim, thanks for this feedback...I am typically very safe and was thinking there must be some sort of "Loader Boom Lock" like I have on my Backhoe (see the 110 example below). Are there such things for these old crawlers? Does someone make them or if I welded my own, does wnyone have a photo or example of how they did it? Yes, I would feel MUCH safer having something like this in the future

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jsal
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Re: JD450 Hard Nose Removal

Post by jsal » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:35 am

while your at that stage check your steel lines that go down the frame for the trans filter have a knack for leakage !!

JIM

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Re: JD450 Hard Nose Removal

Post by gregjo1948 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:10 am

Without an enclosed cab, that AC unit on top isn't going to be very proficient. LOL

For safety, set a piece of heavy angle iron on top of the loader lift piston while the loader is up. Then gently lower the loader down until the angle iron is holding the loader from lowering any farther. I think that's what Jim was saying.
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Re: JD450 Hard Nose Removal

Post by Jim B » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:59 am

Chris,

John Deere does make them, I think I saw a price of about $300. It sounds you have the basic pattern on your loader. You don't need it to pin to the linkage like the one in the photo, just make it fit so it sets around the rod (3 sides), on the cylinder gland, and under the cylinder's rod end pin boss. A piece of angle iron and a piece of flat bar will give you 3 sides, or you may have a shop that could bent a channel for you. Many people do use just a piece of angle iron, depends on how polished you want it to be. Just be sure it is made so it can't kick out under load. You just need to store it somewhere when not using it.
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Re: JD450 Hard Nose Removal

Post by 77 Ford » Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:00 am

I have 2 pieces of 4" angle that I use for loader arm locks and one piece that I lay across the arms that I pull the nose with. I use a come a long hooked to a small chain thru the hole you check radiator fluid. If the loader is running, I pull the nose put it down and backup 10 feet and it's out of the way nice and easy. Once you get the hang of it , it will become pretty easy. I can have my nose off in 20 minutes and on in about the same time (assuming I have everything out and ready to go).

When I go back together I swing the bottom in and put the pivot points back in that holds the bottom in place then use the come along to ratchet the top back shut and lock it all down.

I feel terrible for the dozer guys, having to use a tractor or hoe to get the nose off must really stink.
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Re: JD450 Hard Nose Removal

Post by DrLoch » Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:30 am

That's one way of holding up the bucket.
Trans filter, which looks like it hasn't been changed in quite some time, is the same as the oil filter. You want to take care of the HLR Trans....
FYI check the radiator mounts which are rubber and most likely junk.

Also, pull the pump coupling back and put some extra fan belts in there and wire tie them out of the way until they are needed. The Pump drive will go through the belts.

You will thank me for that one down the road.
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Jim B
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Re: JD450 Hard Nose Removal

Post by Jim B » Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:48 am

Also check the water pump for play in the bearing while your that close.

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Re: JD450 Hard Nose Removal

Post by gregjo1948 » Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:52 am

DrLoch wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:30 am
That's one way of holding up the bucket.
Trans filter, which looks like it hasn't been changed in quite some time, is the same as the oil filter. You want to take care of the HLR Trans....
FYI check the radiator mounts which are rubber and most likely junk.

Also, pull the pump coupling back and put some extra fan belts in there and wire tie them out of the way until they are needed. The Pump drive will go through the belts.

You will thank me for that one down the road.
Isn't the trans filter a hydraulic filter which would be a lot finer?
JD 350B diesel w/rops & 6way blade, Case 580B Loader/backhoe, Farmall 504 highcrop, International 404 utility, International 284 diesel w/belly mower, 1972 Ford F600 dump truck, Galion 3-5 roller

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Re: JD450 Hard Nose Removal

Post by Labparamour » Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:27 am

DrLoch wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:30 am


Also, pull the pump coupling back and put some extra fan belts in there and wire tie them out of the way until they are needed.
You will thank me for that one down the road.
Love that idea!
I’m just putting the front back together after water pump rebuild.
All the pump disconnect linkage was frozen.
All good now, though.
Darryl

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Re: JD450 Hard Nose Removal

Post by DrLoch » Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:47 am

JD Part Number for the engine oil filter T19044 and Trans oil cooler/filter are one and the same T19044.
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Re: JD450 Hard Nose Removal

Post by DrLoch » Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:51 am

Also, FWIW I change the trans cooler filter every other time I do an engine oil change. Both are generally before the suggested change interval. I have enough problem with me braking things, I don't need stuff breaking because of poor maintenance on my part.
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Re: JD450 Hard Nose Removal

Post by cjhusky » Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:50 am

77 Ford wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:00 am
I have 2 pieces of 4" angle that I use for loader arm locks and one piece that I lay across the arms that I pull the nose with. I use a come a long hooked to a small chain thru the hole you check radiator fluid. If the loader is running, I pull the nose put it down and backup 10 feet and it's out of the way nice and easy. Once you get the hang of it , it will become pretty easy. I can have my nose off in 20 minutes and on in about the same time (assuming I have everything out and ready to go).

When I go back together I swing the bottom in and put the pivot points back in that holds the bottom in place then use the come along to ratchet the top back shut and lock it all down.

I feel terrible for the dozer guys, having to use a tractor or hoe to get the nose off must really stink.
This forum rocks!! You guys are awesome...some excellent suggestions. I am already having a couple of lift supports made. @77 Ford, how do you "one piece that I lay across the arms that I pull the nose with"? I totally LOVE this suggestion AND how you use the dozer to pull and replace the noe...GENIUS!! Just curious again on how you physically attach the one that you lay across? I was thinking of maybe welding a stud on there that sticks up and then drillinlg holes in the bracket piece that lays across to keep it from sliding down? Do you do something similar?

Thanks again everybody. My next post will be in regards to the state of the motor and project I am starting with here and why I needed to get at the radiator in the first place :(. I'll post something tomorrow, as I'll be up to my elbows in it this weekend.

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