455G Metric thread tap size

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jwalk2c
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455G Metric thread tap size

Post by jwalk2c » Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:14 am

I am trying to re-tap the various M10 female threads for accepting new M10 bolts.
I thought these were 7/16 NC and taped one wrong
The bolts have a 5/8 head.
Can anyone tell me what pitch tap to use?
The machine is a 1997 455G and these M10 bolts are used in many sheet metal locations.
I had a Cat 935 and it used 3/8 bolts in similar applications, not that has anything to do with this, just making an observation.
Thank you
Johnny Walker

Jim B
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Re: 455G Metric thread tap size

Post by Jim B » Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:39 am

I checked the parts catalog on line and looked at a hood bolt and found M10 with 1.5 pitch. M10 can have a 16MM or 17MM head by metric standards (M10 and a couple other sizes use two different head and nut hex sizes). I have a sign in through my local dealer so I can see the info on many such items. I don't know that all that is available if one doesn't have a sign in. Go to JDParts Homepage (https://jdparts.deere.com/servlet/com.d ... nguage=19 ) do a model search for 455G and get your parts catalog open. Find the bolt you want and get the part number.

Drop back to the home page and put the part number in the part number search and see if you get info that includes a drawing and details of the bolt. I see it called out as a 10MM capscrew but the dimensions show as inch dimensions and I had to convert to MM. HTH

Jim

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papyrus
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Re: 455G Metric thread tap size

Post by papyrus » Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:52 am

this website helps me usualy with thread problems:

https://www.gewinde-normen.de/en/index.html

as Jim mentiond M10 regular has 1.5mm pitch and a 17mm hex.

hansruedi

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Re: 455G Metric thread tap size

Post by jwalk2c » Sun Apr 07, 2019 4:22 am

Thank you all for the information.
Now I am beginning to understand. I had been using a 5/8 wrench or socket which by the way actually fits, but now I understand the proper size hex is 17 mm
What I did not know when I began working on this machine was the fasteners were metric.
I picked up various lengths of M10 bolts from John Deere yesterday and like you all said they should be 1.5 pitch.
I have a pitch gauge in my tap and die set. I have never been good at reading those though.
With these new bolts I should be able, and also I can always run a die on them to test pitch.(Right)?
You can be sure when I install any bolt it has anti-seize.Just wish everyone did. I know sometimes its not possible.
One more question; Are all the fasteners used throughout this machine metric?
Thank again.
Johnny Walker

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Re: 455G Metric thread tap size

Post by jwalk2c » Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:47 pm

Jim B wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:39 am
I checked the parts catalog on line and looked at a hood bolt and found M10 with 1.5 pitch. M10 can have a 16MM or 17MM head by metric standards (M10 and a couple other sizes use two different head and nut hex sizes). I have a sign in through my local dealer so I can see the info on many such items. I don't know that all that is available if one doesn't have a sign in. Go to JDParts Homepage (https://jdparts.deere.com/servlet/com.d ... nguage=19 ) do a model search for 455G and get your parts catalog open. Find the bolt you want and get the part number.

Drop back to the home page and put the part number in the part number search and see if you get info that includes a drawing and details of the bolt. I see it called out as a 10MM capscrew but the dimensions show as inch dimensions and I had to convert to MM. HTH

Jim
Thank you Jim, I was able to find info on this bolt 19M7402 and as you mentioned It was listed in inches, but there is the option to select /check box for metric and here is the dimensions when Metric check box is selected.

So If I understand correctly this is a metric bolt that I would use a 16 mm socket or wrench and a 10 MM x 1.5 MM tap to rethread or clean up the female threads?

English Metric
Specification
Weight: 0.04 LBS 0.02 Kg
Thread Size 10.000 MM
Thread Pitch 1.500 MM
Length 25.000 MM
Thread Length 20.500 MM
Head Width 16.000 MM
Head Thickness 6.580 MM
Material or Grade 10.9
Finish B
Note

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Re: 455G Metric thread tap size

Post by jwalk2c » Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:49 pm

jwalk2c wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:47 pm
Jim B wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:39 am
I checked the parts catalog on line and looked at a hood bolt and found M10 with 1.5 pitch. M10 can have a 16MM or 17MM head by metric standards (M10 and a couple other sizes use two different head and nut hex sizes). I have a sign in through my local dealer so I can see the info on many such items. I don't know that all that is available if one doesn't have a sign in. Go to JDParts Homepage (https://jdparts.deere.com/servlet/com.d ... nguage=19 ) do a model search for 455G and get your parts catalog open. Find the bolt you want and get the part number.

Drop back to the home page and put the part number in the part number search and see if you get info that includes a drawing and details of the bolt. I see it called out as a 10MM capscrew but the dimensions show as inch dimensions and I had to convert to MM. HTH

Jim
Thank you Jim, I was able to find info on this bolt 19M7402 and as you mentioned It was listed in inches, but there is the option to select /check box for metric and here is the dimensions when Metric check box is selected.

So If I understand correctly this is a metric bolt that I would use a 16 mm socket or wrench and a 10 MM x 1.5 MM tap to rethread or clean up the female threads?
Thats why a 5/8 socket or wrench fits, its the closest sae to 16MM
English Metric
Specification
Weight: 0.04 LBS 0.02 Kg
Thread Size 10.000 MM
Thread Pitch 1.500 MM
Length 25.000 MM
Thread Length 20.500 MM
Head Width 16.000 MM
Head Thickness 6.580 MM
Material or Grade 10.9
Finish B
Note

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Re: 455G Metric thread tap size

Post by Jim B » Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:19 pm

Hi Johnny,

I spaced it on the metric info selection button, I've used it before too. You have it right. M10 - 1.5 tap for the internal threads. A bottom tap is best if you have blind holes, plug tap is good on through holes. The head is 16MM hex from JD (Note the head and nut size can vary on M10 hardware. It might be 17mm from some suppliers.). It is the 10.9 grade (commonly considered the metric equal to SAE grade eight). "B" finish should be black, easier to paint than zinc plated. You should be able to go to a bolt supplier/hardware store with that spec and get the right bolts, as well as getting them from JD as parts. Finish can be your option if you buy at a bolt supplier/hardware store.

Some wrench sizes do overlap, as you found. I have to believe some of the manufacturers making wrenches and sockets are using the sizing allowances and they make one wrench, stamping some the SAE size and the others metric. If you can get one of those plastic bolt gauges, that check SAE and metric, you see in some hardware stores they are handy to have in your tool box. Some have the common thread pitches on them as well.

Jim

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papyrus
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Re: 455G Metric thread tap size

Post by papyrus » Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:15 am

hi
sorry then i'm iterrupting your discussion butt....
M10 black in grade 10.9 is has usualy (not allways) fine tread, 1 or 1.25 mm pitch and are only used in high strength aplications.
Grade 8.8 has 1.5 pitch.

tell me if you have problem to get metric stuff.

hansruedi

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Re: 455G Metric thread tap size

Post by Jim B » Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:40 am

Good day,

Your not interrupting, it is always good to get more information. You may be right, the B could be bright finish. I'll try to remember to ask next time I'm at the dealer about finishes. The JD spec is for grade 10.9 with 1.5 thread pitch in this application.

The past few years I have been working more with industrial hardware and B was commonly used for a black finish were I was. Plated hardware was mostly called out as ZP (zinc plated) or Cad (cadmium plated), but sometimes it showed up as bright finish. There were other finishes as well, but not used as commonly. The good news is metric fasteners are very common here now. More and more things are built using metric hardware. We still have to deal with things using both imperial hardware and metric, so two sets of sockets and wrenches are the norm.

How are you doing with your machine?

Jim

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Re: 455G Metric thread tap size

Post by Jim B » Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:09 am

After some looking around in a box of old catalogs I have, I found an old JD Parts and Accessories Catalog. The 19M7402 is listed in the hardware section of that catalog as plated. I checked some other numbers from the list to the on line parts site and the plated hardware numbers I checked all show as being "B" finish on line. So instead of black as I originally posted, I now have to believe it means a bright finish in the JD lines. Thanks, papyrus.

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Re: 455G Metric thread tap size

Post by papyrus » Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:50 pm

@ jonny walker
could we solve your problem ? i guess there is no way around than buying a M10x1.5 tab ......

@ Jim
that 450b ist still standing behind the shed..... with its two broken bolts. they didn't come out the easy way. so i decided to take the loader and the left frame off and apply some heat.... as soon as i get a few days off.
the regular farm work (and machinery) keeps me busy. had to change two radiators the same time last week on the Valmets.

hansruedi

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