450 lower rebuild price

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milkie62
40C crawler
40C crawler
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 3:54 pm
Location: Near Bennington Vt

450 lower rebuild price

Post by milkie62 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:04 pm

Still learning about dozers and look from time to time for a 450 for my own use. When there is sag in the tracks does that mean they are too worn and in need of replacement ? I have seen some at farm auctions that were used on a farm and auctioneer will say undercarriage @ 50%. What would an approximate price range be to bring it up to 100% ? Also at what percentage of undercarriage are there basically no worries of tracks coming off ? Just wondering if I happen to find a nice older machine and the price is right is it better to have the undercarriage just gone through for longevity. Basically my questions are for my 2 kids who will be building on my property of 100 acres and with nickel and dime jobs over the next 20 yrs,I just assumed it would be nice to have our own machine to use in the woods and for use on the property.Also there will be about 1300 ft of driveway to make ,mostly in fields and taking off topsoil and replacing with fabric and crusher run. Also rebuilding old stone walls from scratch----moving stones,leveling and rebuilding plus all the work around a new home after excavation work. Thanks Ed

dtoots1
2010 crawler
2010 crawler
Posts: 638
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:54 am
Location: akron, ohio

Re: 450 lower rebuild price

Post by dtoots1 » Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:33 am

Location Location!!

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Jim B
1010 crawler
1010 crawler
Posts: 444
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:36 am
Location: western Maine

Re: 450 lower rebuild price

Post by Jim B » Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:00 am

Undercarriage is a big item on a crawler. Stan linked a Dresser document about undercarriage into a post on the FAQ board viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10123&p=55429&hilit ... age#p55429. It has a lot of good info that relates to all undercarriages. You should read and study it, if you haven't, to get a good idea of what is involved. It will fill you in on how an undercarriage is to be measured to determine percent of life. Most numbers thrown out are just someone's idea of what they think the wear is. To me it is just an opinion unless they can show me the measurement records, done by a qualified person, and the comparison to new is calculated. 100% wear is not much when the measurements are followed.

New tracks will sag if not adjusted, so sag is not a determining factor on its own. While usually the less wear an undercarriage has; the less likely a track will come off. I don't know that there is a magical percentage where there are no worries. I have seen operators throw 90+% tracks and others getting by without throwing 150+% tracks. Let them get slack, sliding sideways, running a rock or limbs into them, misaligned, worn components, etc. can cause them to come off.

Tracks are only part of the undercarriage system. Rebuild of the undercarriage system should go along with replacing tracks. Worn sprockets, idlers, and rolls can shorten track life and lead to operational problems. I would plan on a budget of $5000. plus, to go into a 450 undercarriage, figuring I might reuse some components and do the work myself. I would guess two to three times that if you have to send it to a shop. That said many folks, me included, run undercarriages well beyond the 100% limit in scenarios like you are describing as your use would be by using care and common sense. I know mine will need everything when I do it so I am going to get the use out of it I can until then, while starting to gather components.

You need to decide what you want. You may be better off finding one a shop has been through and done the undercarriage, steering clutches, etc.; than a used private sale if you can't, or are not interested in doing the work yourself. That way your purchase price is more but it should reduce major repair costs that could come with a private used sale. JMHO, others will have different thoughts and experiences.

Jim

milkie62
40C crawler
40C crawler
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 3:54 pm
Location: Near Bennington Vt

Re: 450 lower rebuild price

Post by milkie62 » Sat May 18, 2019 9:49 pm

Thanks Jim, that was another thing I was going to ask if it would be better to pay a tad more for something that has had the undercarriage gone through than to buy a more worn machine and then do the work. I would assume a fair amount of it I could do since I was a machine tool mechanic unless it was really heavy work like putting the tracks on. Is there aftermarket tracks,sprocket and such or does it all have to come from deere ? Like I said I have been lurking looking for something and it will be more of a 20 yr toy for me and my son to use on the property when we want to repair a wood road,dig out a stump or grade out a new food plot. I think the 450 is all I would ever need for the above plus covering a septic field,landscaping & such. I figure a once gone through, steam cleaning and new paint and then put into the shed after use should keep it running for many years.

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gregjo1948
350 crawler
350 crawler
Posts: 827
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 5:58 am
Location: Newark Valley,NY,USA

Re: 450 lower rebuild price

Post by gregjo1948 » Sun May 19, 2019 3:58 am

Tracks can be tight (no sag) and be totally shot. Don't judge the quality of the undercarriage by track tightness only. A new machine should have a slight sag in the track. Check the sprockets to see if the cogs are pointed or if there is still a "flat" top on them; reach up under the chain to feel the bushings where the sprockets ride to see if they have very flat spots or even holes from wear; check the amount of rail left for adjustment where the front idler(wheel) rides; you can also use your foot on the top of the front idler and give it a strong push to see if the idler can be rocked. (movement means wear) These are a few ways I check undercarriage in the field and if you have a crowbar in your pocket, that would help in checking also.
JD 350B diesel w/rops & 6way blade, Case 580B Loader/backhoe, Farmall 504 highcrop, International 404 utility, International 284 diesel w/belly mower, 1972 Ford F600 dump truck, Galion 3-5 roller

Jim B
1010 crawler
1010 crawler
Posts: 444
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:36 am
Location: western Maine

Re: 450 lower rebuild price

Post by Jim B » Sun May 19, 2019 5:35 am

Good morning mikie62,

Short answer: paying more for a machine with a new/recent undercarriage might be an advantage, depending on what you want. It is an expense you may avoid for the entire time you have the machine, depending on how much you use it. And the machine won't be tied up as a project, not usable, during the time you would be doing the undercarriage.

You asked about undercarriage cost in an old post and guys gave you some idea of price to do an undercarriage. With steel prices changing often you might want to budget more than those old estimates. Add your time doing it and how quick you want to work it after you get it, not that you couldn't get one, work it, and wait to do the undercarriage when the tracks won't stay on.

A machine that has had the undercarriage replaced will be more up front, but the cost of the undercarriage will be built into the sale price, not an estimate you have to add as a future cost. Unless there was very good proof the UC was just done I would want it fully measured before purchase, it could give you some negotiating leverage if there is say 25% wear already. If you read through the Dresser document you understand wear is not something that should be judged visually. If a seller doesn't want to allow you to have it measured, I would approach purchase with caution. I would compare doing it to a buyer paying to have a home inspection done before a purchase.

I expect you and your son could replace the undercarriage, even replace the tracks. You might need a loader or such at times to move heavy components such as tracks and track frames. I say track frames as I expect you would want to pull them off for easier access to the rock guards and roll bolts, especially to dig out the hardware that will likely break off and have to be "dug out" or needs weld repair. If you go to https://archive.org/details/John_Deere_Company you can find a copy of a 450B Technical Manual in the manuals there. Down load a copy of it and you can read through the section on tracks and undercarriage and get a better idea of the undertaking. The basic concept is pretty much the same on all crawlers. It will also give you insight on all parts and systems, on the 450C, D, and E models, as those things are about the same with all of them. HTH

Jim

milkie62
40C crawler
40C crawler
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 3:54 pm
Location: Near Bennington Vt

Re: 450 lower rebuild price

Post by milkie62 » Mon May 20, 2019 2:09 am

dtoots1 wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:33 am
Location Location!!

Helps to add your general location to your profile..find profile in login drop down box!


Added my location. Ed

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