JD450C third head gasket This is getting old

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Jim B
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Re: JD450C third head gasket This is getting old

Post by Jim B » Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:02 pm

Here is the info on the "JD Break-in Plus" oil. Price at local JD dealer here is about $15.00 per gallon.

https://jdparts.deere.com/partsmkt/docu ... kInOil.htm

oldmetalmender
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Re: JD450C third head gasket This is getting old

Post by oldmetalmender » Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:18 pm

I also ordered the break in oil. I did not read the link but when I was looking at buying some, it said do not use for more than 100 hours. And no extended idling. It is better to buy the break in oil than add an additive. You will never find an oil manufacturer that says it is OK to add ZDDP to their product. After break in and on regular oil, I plan on adding something. Or finding a good diesel oil that is known to have higher ZDDP. ZDDP kills catalytic converters and that is the main reason it was removed in the 80's in cars and trucks.
I paid 23 a gallon for my JD oil.. Ouch...
I am currently waiting on the 4239 engine kit to arrive. I still have a lot of cosmoline to remove from the new block. I work on it when time permits.
I am also still unable to remove the tach drive gear from the end of the old cam. I was going to try heat since it was probably put in with loctite.
I am taking the flywheel in tomorrow for a surfacing. I can't wait to get the crawler going.
1969 JD 400 backhoe
1975 JD 450C crawler

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Re: JD450C third head gasket This is getting old

Post by oldmetalmender » Wed Nov 13, 2019 11:00 am

I have been looking for the JD-227 clutch pressure plate finger height gauge. Lavoy I sent a PM. Maybe it did not go through. Do you still have these for sale? I am assuming a new PP still needs to be checked and set. It looks like the setting is different between the B's and C's I have the H-L-R trans.
1969 JD 400 backhoe
1975 JD 450C crawler

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Lavoy
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Re: JD450C third head gasket This is getting old

Post by Lavoy » Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:52 pm

Not positive on the part number, the one I have is the dual gauge for 450 straight and B. E-mail is the best, PM's are sporadic for me.
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Parts and restoration for antique and late model John Deere crawlers.
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gregjo1948
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Re: JD450C third head gasket This is getting old

Post by gregjo1948 » Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:28 am

Jim B wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:02 pm
Here is the info on the "JD Break-in Plus" oil. Price at local JD dealer here is about $15.00 per gallon.

https://jdparts.deere.com/partsmkt/docu ... kInOil.htm
Hey Jim B-- I rebuilt my 350B and am running JD break-in oil. Can I assume that it's the correct oil to run? If so, how long before I should change oil and filter and should I fill it back up with break-in or go to regular oil? I only have about 12 hours on it now. thanks, gregjo1948
JD 350B diesel 6way blade, Case 580B Loader/backhoe, Farmall 504 high crop w/ flail boom mower, International 404 , International 284 diesel w/belly mower, 1972 Ford F600 dump truck, Galion 3-5 roller, Allis Chalmers D17

Jim B
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Re: JD450C third head gasket This is getting old

Post by Jim B » Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:33 am

Good morning gregjo1948,

From reading the document it is the right oil and I don't see anything in the description that would make me think otherwise. It is in the 10W30 class. The minimum drain interval is given as 100 hours in the document. The maximum drain interval is shown as 500 hours for Break-in Plus oil. If you have the Break-in (not Plus) oil or a mix of Break-in and Break-in Plus the document says maximum 250 hours. It looks like you have at least 88 hours to go to your first 100 hour change. You can then go to the oil you normally run or you could do it again with break-in oil if you think you need to and still be below the 250 hour max for the Break-in grade.

How long have you been in getting 12 hours on it, what are you doing with it, and how hard have you been working it? I would say the operating conditions during break-in are going to be about as important as the oil. An engine should be up to temperature and worked (normal operation for the type of equipment, various engine speeds, various loading levels with minimum of engine idling) to get the rings seated. Working several hours at a stretch to get things up to temperature and held there for a while, would be best.

Just my thoughts, others may differ.

Jim

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gregjo1948
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Re: JD450C third head gasket This is getting old

Post by gregjo1948 » Fri Nov 15, 2019 5:20 am

Jim B-- All I've done over about 1 1/2 years with this machine is run it across my field to push out my 3/5 Galion roller. Does a nice job on the fields but, I get it stuck a lot. I run it about 3/4 throttle in 3rd gear which rattles the tracks a bit. Other than that, I start it every 3-4 weeks to exercise the steering clutches for about 15-20 minutes. I really haven't had any real work for it. gregjo1948
JD 350B diesel 6way blade, Case 580B Loader/backhoe, Farmall 504 high crop w/ flail boom mower, International 404 , International 284 diesel w/belly mower, 1972 Ford F600 dump truck, Galion 3-5 roller, Allis Chalmers D17

oldmetalmender
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Re: JD450C third head gasket This is getting old

Post by oldmetalmender » Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:24 am

Cleaning each and every part. Parts are arriving. I am trying to find a clutch finger height for the 450C. Is is different from the B? The new pressure plate arrived yesterday. I pick up the flywheel and the new rods with the pin bushings that have been fitted to the new pins in 2 hours.

Apparently the tool JD227 for setting the clutch fingers is hard to find anymore. If I can find the spec on the finger height, I have a precision straight edge and can go from there. I wanted to set it up on the bench first and make sure it is right.
1969 JD 400 backhoe
1975 JD 450C crawler

Jim B
2010 crawler
2010 crawler
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Re: JD450C third head gasket This is getting old

Post by Jim B » Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:36 pm

I think Lavoy will have the right gauge for you, I got my gauges from him. I got his JD7 gauge for my 430 clutches. The other one I got from him has the JD227 on one side and the JD264 on the other. For reference, from a 450B manual I have, the engine clutch on a 450B uses the JD227 and the steering clutch uses the JD264. Over the years JD has made modifications to the shape of the gauges to fit different clutches (like a 2030) with that same finger height. The changes were things like grinding a relief into some areas and narrowing the finger tab. The tab for setting the finger height stayed the same height. Just mentioning as the gauge you get might look a bit different from the picture in the book.

oldmetalmender
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Re: JD450C third head gasket This is getting old

Post by oldmetalmender » Fri Nov 15, 2019 5:18 pm

I just returned from picking up my surfaced flywheel and connecting rods. While over there in the town next door I stopped in to the JD dealer parts counter. They brought out a tall stack of gauges. Sure enough they had a JD227. I put a straight edge under it to simulate a flywheel and measured to the step made for the clutch fingers. It was 2 inches. So that is the finger height on the JD227 gauge. I have been looking everywhere for that dimension. I also learned while there that their part number for the JD227 is in fact JDG227. Googling that here at home comes up with a valve plate puller. Nothing to do with clutches. I will check the JD parts finder site. I would like to find one and get it on the way.
I have two emails in to Lavoy. I am hoping he has a JD227 and I hear back from him soon. I am sure he is busy. I can improvise but would like the tool especially since I am pretty sure I might be doing steering clutches in the next year or two.

I have a little more cosmoline to remove from the engine block and I should be able to start assembling this weekend. I just got my new plastigauge in. I am going to go turn out a clutch alignment tool on the lathe after some lunch. Thanks for the feedback.
1969 JD 400 backhoe
1975 JD 450C crawler

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Lavoy
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Re: JD450C third head gasket This is getting old

Post by Lavoy » Fri Nov 15, 2019 5:55 pm

I have had several bounce backs from your e-mail address, not sure what is up. My cell is 701-361-1006.
Lavoy
Parts and restoration for antique and late model John Deere crawlers.
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oldmetalmender
430 crawler
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Location: Idaho Panhandle

Re: JD450C third head gasket This is getting old

Post by oldmetalmender » Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:04 pm

I live in the middle of nowhere about 40 miles from Canada. I have really bad services. Phone, internet etc. I'd be better off with a can and a string... :mrgreen: I will try to call you. Thanks Lavoy.
1969 JD 400 backhoe
1975 JD 450C crawler

Jim B
2010 crawler
2010 crawler
Posts: 657
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:36 am
Location: western Maine

Re: JD450C third head gasket This is getting old

Post by Jim B » Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:18 pm

JD227 is JD227A in a 1986-1987 Service Guard tool catalog. I think the A gauge is modified to save doing a field modification for clearance; as was called out doing to a JD227 gauge in the service manual for my 2030 single stage engine clutch. My personal thought is someone is wrong on it being JDG227 now. JDG227, and a sketch of it, is shown in the 1986-87 Service Guard catalog as a valve plate remover in the section of Air Conditioning Tools and Equipment.

oldmetalmender
430 crawler
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Posts: 93
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Re: JD450C third head gasket This is getting old

Post by oldmetalmender » Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:33 pm

Great conversation with Lavoy. Gauge is ordered and will soon be on its way. THANKS Lavoy! :D
1969 JD 400 backhoe
1975 JD 450C crawler

oldmetalmender
430 crawler
430 crawler
Posts: 93
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:06 pm
Location: Idaho Panhandle

Re: JD450C third head gasket This is getting old

Post by oldmetalmender » Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:49 pm

Hi Jim,
The counterman at the dealer said it was a JDG227. I found that to be the valve plate remover when I looked at home. So naturally I was puzzled by that one. I checked his card he sent me away with and sure enough, he wrote JDG.... Mkay... So it looks like it is Jd227A instead. Anyone reading this post from a search in the future disregard the JDG227 number. It is a dead end. Like Jim mentioned the latest tool is a JD227A
Good thing was that a shop guy brought all the gauges up front for me to look at. I saw it was made by OTC and labeled JD227 It was clearanced for the 3.250 update.
The better thing is I just got off the phone with Lavoy. I have a JD227 on the way. I still need to make the gear train timing mark tool and input shaft dummy tool. I used to have a M35A2 duece and a half. I made a dummy shaft for it that has occupied a peg board hook for years, and I am hoping it is the same size or machinable to be a correct fit.
I am really looking forward to hearing this crawler go. It is nice to have the obstacles fall away one by one.
1969 JD 400 backhoe
1975 JD 450C crawler

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