Getting ready to rebuild the steering clutches on my 450B

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crawler123
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Post by crawler123 » Wed Nov 02, 2011 4:05 pm

Well now I'm trying to pull the inner drive shaft. The threads on this shaft seem to be the 3/8x16 thread.

Doesn't seem to budge. I can see the splines in there and they seem a little rusty and dry.

I was able to shoot a little liquid wrench in the splines. Hopefully that will help to loosen things up.

Wow I've been busy making all kinds of adapters for my slide hammer.
I just don't want to beat those threads to death.

Hasn't anyone else noticed that the threads on the pinion are different from the drive shaft? Haven't seen that mentioned in any threads.

Doesn't seem like there is any procedure on these crawlers that is easy. :lol:

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crawler123
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Post by crawler123 » Thu Nov 03, 2011 3:35 pm

Well here is the latest. The left clutch shaft is still stuck. I am able to move it a small amount using a allthread and a puller arrangement.
Another jdcrawlers member told me that the ring gear tube that these shafts connect to is possibly hollow. So If I am able to get one shaft out I may possibly be able to drive the other out using a brass drift long enough to hit the shaft on the other side.
It turns out that the right splined shaft is more stuck the left.
So at this point I'm going to work at the left shaft and see if I can get it loosened up some more.
If anyone reading this has any more suggestions please post them.
thanks
Dennis

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tjdub
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Post by tjdub » Thu Nov 03, 2011 8:33 pm

Are you sure you have the steering clutch assembly supported enough by your hoist? It sounds like you might have the weight of the assembly keeping you from pulling the drive shaft out. The service manual says to spin the brake band once you get the yoke pin out and to hook your chain on each end of the brake band for supporting/lifting the assembly.

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crawler123
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Post by crawler123 » Fri Nov 04, 2011 6:33 am

Yes I am supporting the assembly with a chain and hoist. There just seems to be some built up material that is blocking the extraction of the shaft.
I have it moving about a quarter inch in and out but on that final exit it just binds up and won't come any further.
Not only do I have the weight off the clutch pack I and wiggling it all around while pulling on it. I'm also trying to squirt penetrant back in there. I don't know how much luck I am having getting it in there. It's such an tight squeeze.

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crawler123
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Post by crawler123 » Fri Nov 04, 2011 12:01 pm

I've been slide hammering, pulling, beating, heating, jiggling, jacking and nothing.
I can get the inner drive shaft to move about and inch. Then it hits like solid metal on both ends.
Are you sure there is no other fastener, clip ring or anything else that could be keeping this shaft from pulling out.
By the way the spline actually in the clutch pack is completely loose. I can move the pack back and forth in the housing by hand.

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crawler123
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Post by crawler123 » Fri Nov 04, 2011 2:34 pm

All I can say is FREE AT LAST, FREE AT LAST !!!!!!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:


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WHEW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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And the good part is, I DON'T THINK I BROKE ANYTHING !!!

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Yea Baby it's miller time :D :D :D :lol:

KenP
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Post by KenP » Fri Nov 04, 2011 2:46 pm

deleted
Last edited by KenP on Sat Jun 01, 2013 5:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
No longer posting on JDCrawlers

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crawler123
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Post by crawler123 » Sun Nov 06, 2011 11:36 am

Oh crap. That nasty four letter word, SNOW !!!! :(

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Well at least I got one clutch out. :lol:
Any words of advise on getting out really small and really rusted in bolts?
Seems the pressure plate bolts on the clutch drum are really stuck.
They've been soaking in liquid wrench for a couple days. I've given them a few good wacks with a brass drift. No luck.
Should I get them nice and hot next? Or would that weaken them more?
I really, really, really don't want to break these off in there !!!

Image

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crawler123
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Post by crawler123 » Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:59 am

Well a little heat from the torch and all bolts are out safe and sound.

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Oh the rust. Do you think there is anything salvageable here?
Anyone notice that there are eight of each?
That ninth fiber was still stuck to the pressure plate.

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Well I'll give it a heck of a try.
Just off hand anyone know what the thickness of the steels and fibers should be?

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Jack-the-Ripper
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Reuse those discs?

Post by Jack-the-Ripper » Mon Nov 07, 2011 3:43 pm

Dennis,

Well, you got 'em out - that must have been scary. I'm curious, where did you apply the heat? Did you use the impact wrench?

You can reuse the clutch discs and steels, and if you were on a deserted island and reusing them was the only way off the island, of course you would. Your island would, of course, have electricity and you might use a pad sander to remove the rust from the steels, and the glaze from the friction plates.

The frictions would then be worn just a bit more, and the steels in your case, would probably be quite pitted. The result is that you will have less surface area creating friction force and when pulling or pushing a maximum load you might get some premature clutch slip. I sanded mine and reused everything and it seems to work OK but if you can afford it, particularly since yours look quite rusted, I would suggest replacement discs and frictions, have the brake drum turned, and turn or use a rebuilt pressure plate, if you can afford it. Make the decision in context of the amount of work required to replace them again, if necessary.

As an aside, Dennis is creating a great graphic record of the amount of work and grief required to resurrect an old 70's vintage dozer, and this can give an idea of how much a used one in not-rnning condition might be worth. Used, in decent running condition, might be worth $8-12K. You can easily put $2-5K just in parts to fix one up, not counting labor.

Keep it up, Dennis, you're doing it!

Ralph
JD450C (Jack the Ripper), JD450B (Jill the Wench), KomatsuPC120 (Ursa, The Big Dipper), Case580E (Ida Hoe), International 4400 Dump Truck

andregrondin
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Post by andregrondin » Tue Nov 08, 2011 7:23 am

Hi !

pretty much busted disk , but after your rebuild and starting pushing dirt again you will feel the pride mounting inside yuor body like the pressure of oil into the motor ! woth every quarts of it !! LOL big job to do but you will enjoy it .

I did my right side on the 350 and at the end of the month it come into the garage to check the left side as well as rollers !! so it will be ready for next year !!!

keep up !!!!
Dig in boy !!
J-D 350 straight 1966
model # = T4F3D
serial # = 08883T

J-D 690-B 1980
model # = D690B
serial # = 007364T

Mack RB688S 1990 dumper

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crawler123
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Post by crawler123 » Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:09 am

Thanks Ralph and Andre for the valuable input.
I heated the bolt heads and then used the impact to get them loose.
Once the impact had a couple turns they came out fairly easy with the hand ratchet.
Needless to say whatever bolts I put back in these will have plenty of high temp no seize compound on them. :lol:

I took out the right side clutch yesterday and it took a total of about 3 hours not 3 days like the previous one. I attribute this new found speed on some tips by jtrichard on getting the shaft out i.e. wacking it from behind and pulling in front. Also I kind of knew by then what was needed. :lol:

b13150
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spliting the tracks

Post by b13150 » Thu Nov 17, 2011 3:16 am

I didn't.think you had to split the tracks on a 450b to replace the steering clutches.
curr dog

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crawler123
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Post by crawler123 » Thu Nov 17, 2011 7:58 am

Unfortunately yes you do have to split the tracks. Unless you can think of some way to get the sprockets off without splitting the track.
The sprockets cover a bearing quill that has to be removed to get the clutches out.
Maybe we should just make a big hole in the sprocket so we can avoid removing it. :lol:

Update:
I have determined that the steels are unusable. So all new steels are on their way.
New pinion seals are installed. That was quite a chore :(
The clutch pressure plates are being milled and the drums turned. There was quite a ridge on the drums.
I am going to try reddirt's brake band relining method. I've ordered the lining material and rivets.
I will try to take pictures as time permits.

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crawler123
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Post by crawler123 » Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:07 am

Some more pics.

Newly machined clutch/brake drums.
New throwout bearings.
This stuff is taking forever to get done.
But is starting to come together.

Image


Newly relined brake bands. etc.

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Someday this will all be done !!!!

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