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440 ic steering clutch issue

 
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oka in ak
MC crawler
MC crawler


Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4
Location: alaska

PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:39 am    Post subject: 440 ic steering clutch issue Reply with quote

Hi guys- I am having an issue with my right steering clutch. Does not want to turn or engage when it's pulled back. It will finally start working after about a half hour of pulling back and forth, it will finally "grind" a bit and stall the engine, then seem to work. I heat it up under a tarp with a space heater but it almost seems as if it is "frozen" then gets warm enough. Once it is working it works great, but after it's parked it repeats. As it sits right now i can barely pull it back an inch or two.
Thanks for all your help on this sight, from the interior of Alaska.
Olee
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Lavoy
Site Admin
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Joined: 03 Apr 2005
Posts: 7716
Location: North Dakota

PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First thing I would try is to adjust the clutch, if not that, then something else is wrong or maybe broken.
Lavoy
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Gil
1010 crawler
1010 crawler


Joined: 14 Dec 2007
Posts: 345
Location: Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Terminology might be an issue when interpreting your problem. When the engine is running and the transmission is in gear the shaft coming into each clutch housing will turn. If the steering lever is forwarded, its normal position, the clutch is engaged. The term “engaged” implies that the clutch pressure plate is pressing against the clutch disks and the input shaft is therefore coupled to the output shaft. When the input shaft turns, the output shaft turns, and the track on that side would turn.

As you pull back on the steering lever, two things happen. First, the clutch disengages. That is, it disconnects the power from the output shaft. If the crawler is already rolling, the track on that side may continue to roll from momentum but it will not be under power. As the lever is pulled back just a little further, the steering clutch remains disengaged but now the brake on that side becomes engaged and the track will stop turning. It will not bog down the engine because the steering clutch has disconnected the power to the track.

It was not clear to me if you were driving the crawler forward during the time you were pulling the right lever back and forth and warming it up. If it was moving, even if under power from the left track, then the brake on the right side is not engaged. If the crawler was not moving and the steering lever was all the way forward, the brake might be engaged (“frozen”). Under this condition the engine would normally stall. However if the steering clutch was also slipping the engine would not stall because of the slipping clutch.

If your brake is working normally but the steering clutch is “frozen” in the engaged position then it would be trying to turn the output shaft regardless of whether the steering lever was forward or pulled back. If the lever was forward and the brake was free, the crawler would move forward. If the clutch started to slip it might make a rattling sound. If the lever was pulled back the clutch would try to disengage but could not if it was “frozen”. If it started to “unfreeze” it could rattle.

My comments may be about as clear as mud but you kind of have to understand how the steering mechanism works to trouble shoot it. One thing I can be clear about. You should buy the manual and set the steering clutch and brake before you do anything else. The Service Manual is expensive but excellent if you ever plan to do any work on the crawler. The User Manual is small and cheaper and will at least help you set the steering clutch and brake. Gil
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JD440-ICD loader; JD440-IC bulldozer; JD440-ICD backhoe; JD440-I backhoe; JD440-I tractor; + five recumbent JD440-ICs
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oka in ak
MC crawler
MC crawler


Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4
Location: alaska

PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the quick response, guys.
O.K. the crawler is moving forward, when i am pulling back the right lever. It was almost sounding and feeling like, it was literally frozen. After awhile of moving forward and pulling back on lever it would start to go back more and "grab" i was pumping the brake at this time as well.
So today i found the manual for the crawler and removed inspection cover. Shined a light down in it and it looked like ice in the bottom of it. I got undermachine and removed, the plugs from both sides. Left side had nothing. Right side had about 1/2" of ice that I was able to take a punch and get through.\
Could it be, that it was causing this? Tomorrow, I am going to heat machine up with space heater and try drying out.
Obvisously I need to make sure my inspection covers are sealed better in the future.
I will adjust my clutches after i get it thawed out.
After machine was ran and warmed up, it would be fine. After it sat, the problem would come back until warm again.
I guess my question is-- Is it possible that the water is freezing, than thawing??
Once again, thanks so much. Sorry my terminology is vague at best.
Olee
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Gil
1010 crawler
1010 crawler


Joined: 14 Dec 2007
Posts: 345
Location: Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 5:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would not say that the water in the bottom of the case is the problem; rather it is an indication of the problem. In other words, removing the water will probably not solve the problem. Moisture has gotten into the clutch pack and caused the fiber and steel disks to “freeze” together. In your case it may literally be freezing due to temperature, but these packs “freeze” together due to rust and oil contamination as well. Running the crawler and working the clutch tends to heat them up and loosen them in either case.

The most hopeful solution at this point is to assume only water moisture is the problem and to try to dry the clutch pack out. Get warm air flow into and through the case (for many hours probably). Loosen the brake band and pull the steering lever back as far as you can and wedge it there. This may open up the clutch pack to hope that air might flow around the plates. Gil
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JD440-ICD loader; JD440-IC bulldozer; JD440-ICD backhoe; JD440-I backhoe; JD440-I tractor; + five recumbent JD440-ICs
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