420 steering clutches

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dand
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420 steering clutches

Post by dand » Sun Feb 05, 2012 2:28 pm

I am looking at a 1956 5 roller 420 that has been sitting in a shed for 20 years. Supposedly the engine is good. I don't know much about crawlers, but would like to have one to play with. I was told the clutches are "tight". I can do some external mechanical work, but not internal engine work, etc. I think I can find a local hobbyist mechanic to do the work. My question is how many hours would it take to rebuild the clutches and approximately how much for parts? I need to back out that many dollars to make an offer where I don't get burned too bad.

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Willyr
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Post by Willyr » Sun Feb 05, 2012 4:35 pm

You can do a side in a afternoon. This is assuming your not doing a restoration.

You need to lift the back end and place on either jack stands or blocks.

Then using the blade or more blocks / jack stands raise the front.

The tracks should be clear of the cround now.

Pop the master pin to the track and flop the track over the blade (by this time maybe a hour).

Now it is a matter of removing the sprocket, and cover behind the sprocket.

Some one will have to link where the rest of the actual work is if you actually need to get into there or not. Yet at that point it should be a natter of last part off, is first part on.

Mine just needs the brakes serviced. So it is not as indepth as the clutches.
former owner of a 1956 420c
All help is greatly appreciated.

Proud owner of a project 1952 JD 60

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFehqXVd9z4

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440 iron popper
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Post by 440 iron popper » Sun Feb 05, 2012 4:59 pm

If you want to evaluate the cost for this job, go the the parts section of this board:

http://www.jdcrawlers.com/parts_main.php

You'll need 8 fibers and 8 steels (later serial number) on each side. Talking about 20 years of sitting, I would change:

16 fibers
16 steels
2 throw-out bearings
2 new pressure plates
2 throw out bearing sleeves
new springs everywhere

This is a basic list... You might find out you'll need new seals there and there and go deeper. I would change the oil seals (on the final and on the transmission) to protect your investment :) . Relying on 20 years old seal to keep the dry steering clutches dry... :?

Lavoy has all that and at the best price. I called a Deere dealer to have the price of fiber disks before I found this site. 287$ each!!!
You can do the math with the parts section of this board and then lower the price of the machine you plan to buy.
440IC 1958 #443712, 602 blade, Gearmatic winch project in the back
440IC, serial tag gone, Blade with tilt
-------------------------------------------------------

cdunn
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Post by cdunn » Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:10 pm

Brake bands will most likely need attention as well; probably replacing.
57 420c 86 Ford 4600
67 350 dozer
66 350 loader
58 Oliver OC-4
48 8n Ford
49 Farmall Cub
Struck Mini-Dozer

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Lavoy
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Post by Lavoy » Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:10 pm

Steering clutch kit is in the $550 range, might need some incendentals, and I always recommend at the least looking at the final drives while they are off.
Lavoy

dand
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Post by dand » Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:18 am

Thanks for the good feedback on this.

dand
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Post by dand » Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:50 pm

Lavoy - would I need two of the kits for $550 or just one?

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Post by Lavoy » Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:17 pm

One per side.
Lavoy

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Willyr
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Post by Willyr » Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:55 pm

Did the owner tell you that the clutches were tight? Are you supposing that it doesnt work based only on talk?

I would try to drive it first before doing any work on the tractor. Put it in neutral, start it. Push the foot clutch in, and put it in gear. Ease the clutch out and it will start to move. If the steering clutches are bad, find a big old stump or tree. Put the blade against it and slowly let out the clutch. If the ground is frozen you will let the clutch out and the tracks will either grab the ground and stall the engine or the tracks may just spin on the surface of the ground. If either of those two work there is nothing wrong with the clutches and you are wasting money on unnecessary work.

If the clutches need to be replaced you will let out the clutch and feel a begining of the engine slowing but bad clutches will not let you stall or spin the tracks.

Tight also could refer to having the steering arms not having enough travel. You are supposed to have 1-3/4" of travel in the handle from the relaxed position to pulled all the way to the rear.
former owner of a 1956 420c
All help is greatly appreciated.

Proud owner of a project 1952 JD 60

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFehqXVd9z4

dand
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Post by dand » Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:21 am

The owner died and the estate has it. Yes, it was secondhand info that the owner told a friend that the clutch or clutches were tight, but the engine is good. The engine has not run for 20 years, the gasoline in the tank looks and smells nasty, but the crankcase oil looks good and the antifreeze is green and up to proper level. If I buy it I will attempt to get it running and try your suggestions. Thanks.

dand
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Post by dand » Tue Feb 14, 2012 7:55 am

This machine is in not running condition. When I push the left foot pedal which I assume is the clutch, it only moves an inch or two and hits the battery box. What does that indicate? I notice the right foot pedal jiggles a little when I move the left foot pedal, is that the brake? Thanks for answering my dumb questions. I want to make an offer sson.

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Lavoy
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Post by Lavoy » Tue Feb 14, 2012 8:25 am

Clutch pedal should not hit the battery box, should not even be possible. Only thing it can hit would be the little flap on the battery tray, and it just hinges up out of the way.
Sometimes clutch pedal shaft gets rusty, so the brake pedal moves with it. If it just wiggles a little, you should be okay.
Lavoy

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