1963 JD 1010 Crawler (gas) - Water In Oil

[jd1010b]

I am trying to get my 1963 1010 Crawler (gas) running. It was sitting in my neighbors field for a few years. The engine oil has water in it. What is the best way to flush all the watery oil out? My cousin recommended using Seafoam to flush it out. I also heard Off Road Diesel / Kerosene might work. What do you old timers recommend?

Another question:

My neighbor said he had the head replaced recently and mentioned something along the lines of I need to run the engine without any coolant at first, as the water jackets need to swell up while the engine heats up to properly seat them before you can put radiator fluid in. Does this sound right? And what is the proper procedure to seat the water jackets / seals?

My digital camera is broken, when I get it running, I promise to post a few pictures!

Thanks for your help! 8) 8)

[Paul Buhler]

Hi: When I bought my dead machine, I drained the oil, buttoned it back up and added about a gallon of diesel fuel to the pan. I had already squirted some diesel oil into each cylinder and let it soak to loosen any stuck rings, I then turned the engine over by hand without the plugs so I wouldn't damage anything that may have been stuck. (I also had the valve cover off to look around while I was doing this initial turn over). I got lucky and the engine was loose (I used a long screwdriver in the timing hole to see if the engine would move). Once I determined that the engine was loose, I cranked it over using the starter with the ignition off and the plugs out to get the diesel to splash and work into the places oil usually is found. I did this a few seconds at a time, multiple times until I saw a reading on the oil pressure gauge and saw diesel/oil dribbling at the valves.

I then let every thing drain and emptied the oil pan, replaced the oil filter swabbing out the sludge at the bottom, and refilled with straight 20w oil as recommended by the manual.

Following this, I worked to get the engine running and after I got it running well and under load for a few days, I drained the oil and refilled fresh with 15w-40 Rotella based on advise given here. Seemed to work.

Once I had the machine up and moving around, putting the sediments into suspension, I also drained all the other fluids, flushed as appropriate and refilled with new oils. The JD Manuals suggest using diesel to flush other areas too. It lubricates and dissolves where kerosene is more of a solvent and may not a give enough lubrication for the moving parts and seals during this process - in my opinion. I didn't flush my whole hydraulics system with diesel so that I wouldn't get any into the cylinders; I did swish some around the reservoir to get any sludge into suspension and dumped it out. This left some old oil in the system, but the new oil added seems to be ok - no coffee color.

Hope this is helpful.Paul

I'll let others weigh in on your second question - I wouldn't run an engine with out coolant; too easy to overheat and warp things. I know it can be done for a short time without damage; I'm just not skilled enough to know when the critical point is reached.

[jdemaris]

I am trying to get my 1963 1010 Crawler (gas) running. It was sitting in my neighbors field for a few years. The engine oil has water in it. What is the best way to flush all the watery oil out?

My neighbor said he had the head replaced recently and mentioned something along the lines of I need to run the engine without any coolant at first, as the water jackets need to swell up while the engine heats up to properly seat them before you can put radiator fluid in. Does this sound right?

I'm not a believer in the benefits of Seafoam except for it draining people's wallets.

For an engine that is known to be OK otherwise but somehow got water in the oil - butyl alcohol is often used. It makes the oil and water unit so when you drain the engine - it all comes out.

As to flushing the water out? I'd worry about where it came from first. 1010 is a single-seal-per-sleeve engine. Once those seals leak, you're not going to fix it correctly without a teardown. I've seen many 1010s and 2010s with age -that held coolant okay until parked and drained. Then those little rubber seals get exposed to air, dry out and fall apart while stored. The idea of starting the engine dry to "swell" up those seals sounds like utter nonsense to me. It only takes a minute or two to get severe hot spots in thin sleeve walls when run dry.

If it was my 1010 - I'd take the oil pan off and look up that block around the sleeve bottoms. If any signs of leakage or rust there - I'd take the head off, take the sleeve deck out - put in new sleeve seals, new deck gasket and a new head gasket. It's a cheap investment if you want to avoid ruining the engine.

[jd1010b]

My neighbor has some books in his garage (hopefully the service manual). He did mention to me today the seals are Neoprene if that helps.

I brought home a RRRRRRRRRRRReally heavy winch today!
It came with the tractor when my neighbors dad got it, but was never used. It looks like it has an asbestos type band braking system and the pump is run off a sprocket. I am guessing I will need a chain and PTO driven gear shaft. The bracket looks hand made. I will try to pull some numbers off of it tomorrow. Thanks

[jdemaris]

My neighbor has some books in his garage (hopefully the service manual). He did mention to me today the seals are Neoprene if that helps.

There is one seal per sleeve. They are simple black rubber rings 5/32" of an inch thick. Over time they degrade and fall apart -especially when a block is drained and they are exposed to air. Ever notice what happens to car/truck tires after 5-10 years with the dry rot? Imagine the same with a rubber ring just a hair over 1/8" thick. In every other Deere wet-sleeve engine - Deere uses multiple rings - usually three per sleeve and only two are black rubber. The other is a special compound that swells when exposed to antifreeze.

1010/2010 engines are the only ones never upgraded to multiple seals per sleeve. Again, I don't buy the story about running the engine dry to swell up what's left of tiny degraded seals that might be over 50 years old. Most motor oils have a flash point around 400 degrees F. That's the temp the oil turns to useless sludge. Start a wet-sleeve engine dry - I suppose the sleeves and piston faces would reach that flash point very quickly and then melt- seize, etc. A bore-in-block non-sleeve, or dry-sleeve engine can be a bit more tolerant.

[dr1zsk1]

I drained the oil on mine, pulled the oil filter. Filled it with cheap 30 wt (if there is such a thing) and ran it a bit. Drained it hot and left the plug out all night from the pan and the oil filter.

Filled it with clean oil and new filter the next day.

Works like a champ.

[Lavoy]

For moisture in Winter, the figure I have heard is at least 30 minutes with an oil temperature above 140 degrees to "boil" the moisture out. For the price of oil compared to an engine, if I had to drain it 5 times and put in new oil, that is what I would do.
Lavoy

[jd1010b]

I flushed the engine with Diesel, drained and topped off with oil as recommended, thanks everyone.
I tried cranking it over, using firing order 1342, counterclockwise. It backfired / flamed a few times out of the carburetor, a few intermittent pops and sputters out the exhaust manifold, but I am not having much luck getting it started. Apparently it was a running machine before they parked it several years back. Any ideas? Thanks!

[jd1010b]

I still cannot get my 1010c Gas Crawler to run. I installed new cap, rotor, points, plugs, spark plug wires. It is getting spark, and backfires out the carb. I am using firing order 1342 counterclockwise. I assume the number 1 cylinder is in the front of the engine by the radiator. Standing in front of the distributor, TDC for #1 is at the 3 oclock position. I have seen a video on youtube for a 1010 gas tractor (not crawler) and #1 is at the 9 oclock position. Any ideas on what I need to do to get it running? Thanks!

[caribcanuck]

When all else fails you could always get a buddy to give you a hand, pull all spark plug and turn the engine by hand with the distributor cap off, bring up number one cyl on compression and see where the rotor is pointing, work your way thru all 4 cyl and you will have the firing order. I know its tedious but it works I've done it on an older gas powered cat on dads farm. just takes time and paitence.

[CELSESSER]

I would like to bring your attention back to what JDemaris was trying to point out. - Where did the water come from??? Is it antifreeze/water from the cooling system? If so it could be from the head gasket, the liner rings or a crack in the block. No matter which of these it might have come from you don't want to run the engine with antifreeze in the oil or it will wipe out the bearings. I assume that since you are trying to start it you have at least filled the cooling system with water. Since you have refilled with fresh oil I would let it sit for a few days and take a clean container and a wrench under the crawler and pull the drain plug on the pan for a second or two to see if there is any more water collecting in the bottom of the pan. If there is do what he said and find out where it is comming from, it won't go away. You don't want antifreeze on your bearings
The starting issue sounds like a timing problem, possibly a carb issue.

[jd1010b]

My Dad and I did this past weekend and #1 compression stroke is at the 3 oclock position, #3 at 12 oclock, #4 at 9 oclock, and #2 at 6 oclock. What general direction should the rotor be pointing @ #1 TDC when looking at the top of the distributor....12, 3, 6 or 9????? Maybe it doesn't matter as long as the firing order is correct?????
Mine is about 3 position.

The oil looks clean, no water, I have not filled the cooling system yet, completely dry. Just want to get it running for a few seconds then Ill fill up the cooling system. I think the water got into the crankcase through the exhaust manifold, the muffler was out, and we had a bunch of rain that week. I put a spray can cap over the manifold port, so that should prevent the water in the crankcase. If it is indeed the cooling system causing the leak, I w1ill know soon enough and can go from there. Thanks!

"When all else fails you could always get a buddy to give you a hand, pull all spark plug and turn the engine by hand with the distributor cap off, bring up number one cyl on compression and see where the rotor is pointing, work your way thru all 4 cyl and you will have the firing order. I know its tedious but it works I've done it on an older gas powered cat on dads farm. just takes time and paitence."

[jd1010b]

I just noticed 1010 views on this thread for my 1010. Hopefully this is a good sign! ;oP

The #1 compression stroke is at the 3 oclock position, #3 at 12 oclock, #4 at 9 oclock, and #2 at 6 oclock. What general direction should the rotor be pointing @ #1 TDC when looking at the top of the distributor....12, 3, 6 or 9????? Maybe it doesn't matter as long as the firing order is correct?????
Mine is about 3 position.

[jd1010b]

I tried rotating the distributor with no luck. I was wondering if my 1963 JD 1010c Crawler (Gas) is positive ground or negative ground? The positive terminal on the coil does to the distributor. It has a generator (no alternator). I connected it to negative ground, it cranks over but wont start. Thanks!

[Tigerhaze]

I was wondering if my 1963 JD 1010c Crawler (Gas) is positive ground or negative ground?

Should be pretty easy to tell- if positive ground then the positive terminal of the battery will go to a body ground and the negative would go to the starter. However it sounds like you aren't sure if the previous owner had rewired it correctly.

These threads should be helpful to you- they discuss electrical starting issues as well as positive and negative ground wiring for a 1010C:

http://www.jdcrawlers.com/messageboard/ ... ive+ground

http://www.jdcrawlers.com/messageboard/ ... ive+ground

http://www.jdcrawlers.com/messageboard/ ... ive+ground

http://www.jdcrawlers.com/messageboard/ ... ive+ground

http://www.jdcrawlers.com/messageboard/ ... ive+ground

http://www.jdcrawlers.com/messageboard/ ... d&start=15