1010 hydraulic pump

[outback farm]

I decided that the hydraulic pump on my 1010 crawler needs rebuilding.

I did the home work and ordered the parts from Deere out my parts catalog, No problem all in stock ect. I removed the pump and.... the pump on the machine is NOT the original (Cessna AT11068)!!!

It turns out it is a Cessna 24509LBZ (AT38801). Of course my JD parts guy tells me most of the parts for this pump are unavailable.

Does anyone know where I can find the complete seal kit for a Cessna 24509LBZ Deere part # AT38801? From what I can find its off of a 350 or 450 Deere Dozer.

Any help would be appreciated.

[whiteclipse16]

You might try the link below. The cessna on my 440 is shot and I'm having trouble finding parts for it also. I'm going to just buy a whole new pump that will be a match.

http://knighthawksupply.com/cessnapumpid.htm

[jdemaris]

I decided that the hydraulic pump on my 1010 crawler needs rebuilding.

I did the home work and ordered the parts from Deere out my parts catalog, No problem all in stock ect. I removed the pump and.... the pump on the machine is NOT the original (Cessna AT11068)!!!

It turns out it is a Cessna 24509LBZ (AT38801). Of course my JD parts guy tells me most of the parts for this pump are unavailable.

Does anyone know where I can find the complete seal kit for a Cessna 24509LBZ Deere part # AT38801? From what I can find its off of a 350 or 450 Deere Dozer.

Any help would be appreciated.

That seal kit is stocked by my local Deere dealer. AT39028 for $141. A waste of money in my opinion.

There is NO way to rebuild those pumps. The kit is basically a seal kit. If the pump shafts, bearings, and/or housings are worn - there is no way to renew it. It was designed as a "throw-away" pump. The kit is for situations when the pump isn't worn -but somehow the seals get blown - which is rare. When a Cessna gear pump is worn out beyond repair, it keeps blowing out the front shaft seal. That seal is not designed to hold any pressure. When the shafts and bearings get worn, and/or gear faces scored, pressure works its way out the front shaft and pushes out the dust seal - and leaks. No fix.

You can buy a brand new pump for $200 if you shop around. The 1010 uses a generic SAE pump two-bolt mount - same as used by Allis Chalmers, Case, Ford, Oliver, Massey Ferguson, etc. Very common.

Main thing to know is which pump is your crawler set up for? I.e. what size splined shaft?

1010 crawler-dozer came new with a smaller approx. 15 GPM pump - Cessna # AT11608T

1010 crawler-loader or dozer with rear attachments came with a bigger 23 GPM pump with a 7/8" X 13 spline shaft. When the 1010 was new it came with either a Webster-Electric (AU11551U) or a Cessna (AU11949 U) .

The Deere AT38801 is a direct bolt-in replacement for the 1010 crawler-loader pump. It was used in 350Bs, 350Cs, 450s, etc. 23 GPM at 2500 RPM. Somewhere around 2.1 cubic inches per revolution.

[whiteclipse16]

After what jdemaris said you might want to look at this link. It it one of the best prices I've found. I'm probably going to order from them when the time comes.
I ran some calcs for my 440 cessna pump and its only about 3GPM @1000RPM/ 5.4GPM @ 1800. Mine is a dozer machine though.

http://www.surpluscenter.com/pages/Catalog285-037.pdf

[jdemaris]

After what jdemaris said you might want to look at this link. It it one of the best prices I've found. I'm probably going to order from them when the time comes.
I ran some calcs for my 440 cessna pump and its only about 3GPM @1000RPM/ 5.4GPM @ 1800. Mine is a dozer machine though.

The 440 diesel crawler with dozer used the same pump as the 1010 with a dozer. Rated 15 GPM at 2500 RPM. The pump gears measure around 1.1" thick and 1.7" OD. I don't remember what shaft size is. Same size pump was also used in 350s with the 5/8" OD shaft with 9 splines. Cessna # 24307LAD

5.4 GPM @ 1800 RPM sounds pretty small -but maybe the dozer has small cylinders and it doesn't matter? 15 GPM at 2500 RPM is pretty much standard on Deere dozers with no rear attachments - from some 440s, 1010s, 350s, etc.

[Lavoy]

Gas dozer with factory pump is a little over 8GPM, I would not go any lower than that.
Lavoy

[outback farm]

Thanks for the feedback. The pump isn't leaking its loosing pressure when the oil gets hot and the backhoe slows way down. The gears and shaft look good with no visible signs of wear so I'm guessing it has something to do with worn out internal seals plates etc.

I contacted knight hawk and ordered complete rebuild kit $118 and will see how it goes.

[jdemaris]

Thanks for the feedback. The pump isn't leaking its loosing pressure when the oil gets hot and the backhoe slows way down. The gears and shaft look good with no visible signs of wear so I'm guessing it has something to do with worn out internal seals plates etc.

I contacted knight hawk and ordered complete rebuild kit $118 and will see how it goes.

Hopefully it will work out. Generally speaking though - there is no way for the pump to lose capacity other then two ways that I know of. #1 - when the gears and housing are worn and there is too much clearance. #2 - if the spider gasket is blown that goes against the metal thrust plate. The kit will come with a new spider gasket and thrust plate. Used to cost $28 - seems to have gone up. Last year, those pumps were available brand new for $200 and for that price, paying over $100 for kit isn't usually cost effective unless the pump is perfect. Webster-Danfoss makes a direct Cessna replacement with a cast-iron center housing. It's a better built pump then the Cessna. The Eaton-Cessna pump prices have gone out of this world.

About the pump size. Deere tends to use 3" cylinders on crawler-dozers and 4" cylinders on crawler-loaders. To keep cylinder speed at around 4" a second at fairly low engine speeds - a 1.4 cubic-inch-per-rev pump often called "15 GPM" is usually used with dozers and a 2 cubic-inch-per-rev AKA "23" GPM with loaders - OR dozers with rear attachments. A 15 GPM pump at 1200 RPM puts out a little over 7GPM. and a 23 GPM puts out around 11 GPM.

Horsepower/engine size is another factor. It takes 20 horsepower to run a "15 GPM" pump at 2200 PSI. it takes 24 horsepower to run the "23 GPM" pump at 2200 PSI.

[Tigerhaze]

Thanks for the feedback. The pump isn't leaking its loosing pressure when the oil gets hot and the backhoe slows way down.

Sure there isn't water in the system?

[outback farm]

Nope... no water in the system


jdemaris:
I tried looking for Webster-Danfoss pumps and was able to find some sold through distribitors I was not able to find the company's website. Do you happen to know the Webster-Danfoss model number that would be the direct replacement for the Cessna?