new to me 1010 diesel crawler basket case , 24 volt system

[ktheaker]

I have a serial - engine 18773, and found the starter loose with no bolts , so i pulled back the fuel filter boss and took the starter out to be rebuilt , i found it to be 24 volts and i can only see where the one battery sits - under the seat , and i can only assume its the right starter but with only one battery spot , i can maybe assume the wrong starter - any opppinions . second the dozer is new to me and a little tough so i can see wiring has been hacked and someone has tried to magiver something - i can only suspect start it . i need some advice - can i start this engine with a 245 volt starter and succeed or have i got a problem here . and i will need some advice on getting this unit started with a pulled apart wiring harness , just power to the starter and glow plugs i believe should do it or do i need to go through the key switch and regulator . thanks

[gregjo1948]

Does tha starter have serial # ? If it does, I think my parts book has the #'s, and I will check if it is original equipment. A 12 volt starter was also used in the 1010s. I think the 24 volt will start a diesel better. Greg

[ktheaker]

yes i did discuss the serial with the rebuilder and i left the starter with him , i cannot recall the # but will email him and see if i get a reply . I can only see one spot for a battery so i suspect we have an incorrect starter , but hope that it will work . i have heard these dont start well . can i tell if its pos ground ? can i tell if its orig 24 volt by the regulator ? . i looked and there a 3or 4 wiring diagrams . it is never simple

[Willyr]

I suggest you post a pic of your tractor and we can identify what you will need. On a diesel you will want a 12 volt if you are working with only one battery. 24 volt will be sluggish and crank hard.

The ground depends solely on what you have for a charging system. Alternators are negative ground only. Generators are usually positive ground.

[ktheaker]

thanks for the replies - keep them coming - im going to need some assistance on this , i suspect its a gen, just because of its size vs an alt that would look automotive size . I will try and post a picture but it will take some time .

[waterman28]

I suggest you post a pic of your tractor and we can identify what you will need. On a diesel you will want a 12 volt if you are working with only one battery. 24 volt will be sluggish and crank hard.

The ground depends solely on what you have for a charging system. Alternators are positive ground only. Generators are usually negative ground.

Careful with the polarity, I have never seen a positive ground alternator. Generators I have seen the ground go both ways.
My 1010 has a generator is 12 volt and I believe is positive ground. The starter is also 12 volt.

[gregjo1948]

On the diesel 1010s, they used 5 different starters I believe. 3 were 12volt & 2 were 24volt. Both the 24 volt were Delco-Remy. One of the 12 volt was a Prestolite. I don't know why the other fellow thought a 24volt system would be slugish. 2--12 volt batteries hooked in series will give you more amps and crank stronger. If you have a blade machine, you can put a second battery on the left fender and run your cables in series with the one under the seat. I installed an alternator (12V) on my 1010C with neg ground. For $50 at NAPA, you can get the three wire alternator that has the regulator inside it. Quite easy to mount right where you remove the generator. There are too many numbers to put on here for the starters and which machines they were on. If you want them, send me an email and I will reply them back to you. gregjo1948@yahoo.com Greg

[jdemaris]

I have a serial - engine 18773, and found the starter loose with no bolts , so i pulled back the fuel filter boss and took the starter out to be rebuilt , i found it to be 24 volts and i can only see where the one battery sits - under the seat ,

Looking at the generator won't tell you if 24 volt or 12. Some 1010s used a "split" system with 12 volts and 24 volts - accomplished with a big series/parallel relay. Two 12 volt batteries hooked in parallel for the 12 volt electrical system. When cranking - they got put into series to make 24 volts to run the starter.

Some 1010 diesels came factory equipped with the 24 volt cranking system and some were retrofitted with kits. For that reason - the serial number won't help. The Deere 24 volt conversion kit came with an extra battery box, a big Delco series/parallel relay, and a Delco 1107547 or 1108250 twenty-four volt starter.

If you have a 24 volt starter, it will only crank with 24 volts. 12 volts will ruin it since it will barely turn and overheat.

12 volt Delco diesel starters in 1010 include 1107573, 1108672, 1107523, 1107556. Very late 1010 diesels used a Prestolite MFX-8001A starter.

Generators for gas and diesel 1010s were all 12 volt(even with 24 volt cranking), Delco numbers 1100399, 1947579. Max output of 20 amps at 14 volts at 2300 RPM.

The split 12/24 volt system was used in many 1010 diesels all the way up to serial # 42,000.

[jdemaris]

The ground depends solely on what you have for a charging system. Alternators are positive ground only. Generators are usually negative ground.

??? What alternators are you referring to that are positive ground? You've got things a bit backwards. The reason why negative ground is an "industry standard" is because of the semiconductors used in alternators. NOT in brushed generators. Generators have no built-in polarity. They can be run any way. Alternators DO have inherent polarity and 99% of them are negative ground.

[Willyr]

Careful with the polarity, I have never seen a positive ground alternator. Generators I have seen the ground go both ways.
My 1010 has a generator is 12 volt and I believe is positive ground. The starter is also 12 volt.

Thankyou for correcting my dyslexic brain. Pain killers are wonderful for pain but they make my brain forgetful. Yes, Alternators NEGATIVE ground. Most generators are positive ground, yet there are a few negative ground (check it before you install the battery).

Again thankyou for the correction

[jdemaris]

Most generators are positive ground, yet there are a few negative ground (check it before you install the battery).

Yes, most generators are hooked up positive ground but . . . they have no built-in polarity. They can be hooked either way and work fine. It's the external regulators (for generators) that sometimes will only work with one polarity. If marked "pos ground" it is probably true. If marked "neg/pos ground" then it doesn't care how it gets hooked.

Alternators can only work one way due to the "one-way" rectifiers inside. If you wanted to change a negative ground alternator over to positive ground - you' d have to take it apart, invert all the rectifiers and also use a different regulator (if electronic).

[ktheaker]

i can see im going to have problems with this , starter # is 1107559 . and i have not started but will be trying soon and i am going to assertain if this unit will run . so ill be hunting for this relay under the dash - the 24 volt split . and try and tell better but i may have a 24 volt starter and a 12 volt dozer - im trying to figure it out and its raining and its just too much to try and pull into the shop . wiring is a shamble and i will need glow plugs and i purchased a key and i suspect i will need a couple batteries hooked up so as to turn it over quickly . i only paid 800 for the machine and it has a reverser . but it could be junk and sometimes you get what you pay for , any help here is needed thanks

[Lavoy]

The 24 volt was for the starting circuit only, the crawler runs on 12. The other battery mounts in a battery box on the fender. In the long run, I am guessing you will be much better off getting a 12 volt starter rather than trying to make all the 24 volt stuff work.
Lavoy

[jdemaris]

i can see im going to have problems with this , starter # is 1107559 . and i have not started but will be trying soon and i am going to assertain if this unit will run .

$800 is probably less the it's scrap-metal value. You can't go wrong at that price (unless you spend $10,000 fixing it).

I don't recognize that starter #. If it IS a 24 volt starter it will have a 24 volt solenoid on it and it will be marked "24 volts."

You can convert the 24 volt starter to 12 volts by just changing the field coils and the solenoid. All the other parts are the same as 12 volt. It's a Delco 20MT starter and new aftermarket parts are easy to find.

If the crawler is a 24 volt "crank" system it will have the Delco-Remy series-parallel switch # 1119899 or 1119845

I've got wiring diagrams if you need them.

[woodsman]

Interesting subject. I recently built a battery box and mounted it right behind the seat, tied it to the under seat battery and with the two, it really cranks the 12 V starter over nicely. When I do a tear down and complete restoration this winter, I plan on changing over to an alternator and negative grounding system. I'm brand new to this site and will offer parts to any of you as I've accumulated 5-1010 dozers and 3-1010 loaders to part out. Had my original dozer since 1980 and have done just about everything to it but the complete restoration. Thanks for all your great information.
Martin