When to take a link out?

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Dana Neumann
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When to take a link out?

Post by Dana Neumann » Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:06 pm

I purchased a 2010 crawler this summer to do a little work around our campground. it is a good runner but the "one" track repeatedly comes off. I do have "windows" and the under carrige is worn.... but i was thinking about taking a link out because the adjuster is pretty much maxed out.
This is just to get the work done that I promised my wife when I bought it and then I can fix it right over the winter.
Any insight would be great.
Thanks in advance
Dana

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Tigerhaze
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Post by Tigerhaze » Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:26 pm

Taking a link out causes other problems- you may want to read these threads before deciding to do so:

http://www.jdcrawlers.com/messageboard/ ... nk+missing

http://www.jdcrawlers.com/messageboard/ ... track+link

If you plant to keep the crawler long-term you may want to consider a repin/rebush if rail height is good. That is if you have an early (pre 42,000) 2010- if later then you could replace with new 350 rails.
(1) JD Straight 450 crawler dozer with manual outside blade; (2) JD 2010 diesel crawler loaders; (1) JD 2010 diesel dozer with hydraulic 6-way blade; (2) Model 50 backhoe attachments, misc. other construction equipment

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jtrichard
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Post by jtrichard » Wed Nov 07, 2012 2:01 pm

if you take a link out and tighten the tracks you will wear the hell out of the sprockets if the sprockets are already junk then go for it and run it till there no more teeth on the sprockets ... a friend of mine has a d6 the tracks were so bad it wore the teeth clear off and he was welding chunks of steel on every other tooth for quite some time when he welded every tooth on ,the tracks were so bad it would just tear them right off
2010 with 622 dozer with mod. 35 ripper and a 2010 with 622 dozer bought in 1969 and a 2010 loader with drott and mod. 36 ripper

jdemaris

Re: When to take a link out?

Post by jdemaris » Wed Nov 07, 2012 2:18 pm

Dana Neumann wrote:I purchased a 2010 crawler this summer to do a little work around our campground. it is a good runner but the "one" track repeatedly comes off. I do have "windows" and the under carrige is worn.... but i was thinking about taking a link out because the adjuster is pretty much maxed out.
This is just to get the work done that I promised my wife when I bought it and then I can fix it right over the winter.
Any insight would be great.
Thanks in advance
Dana
When out of adjustment, often taking out one link gets you some extra use out of the machine, just as you suggested. We had many customers do it and it worked out fine. "Fine" meaning the undercarriage was already worn out and by taking out the link - they got some extra use until the tracks could not be kept on anymore.

Just keep in mind that if your track chains are still good enough to get new pins and bushing -you may ruin them by cutting out the link. If they are shot anyway - as are your sprockets and rollers - then removing a link is a good way to get a little more use from your machine. We had many customers to it until they had no sprocket teeth left - or could not keep their tracks on anymore.

Dana Neumann
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Post by Dana Neumann » Wed Nov 07, 2012 5:14 pm

Thanks for the reply's
How do I determine if the rail hight is right or not?

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Lavoy
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Post by Lavoy » Wed Nov 07, 2012 5:46 pm

To me, you pull a link when you have made the decision to run the undercarriage to destruction. On these crawlers, I think this is dangerous, as you are destroying potentially expensive and hard to get parts, that get harder to come by every year.
Lavoy
Parts and restoration for antique and late model John Deere crawlers.
Owner and moderator www.jdcrawlers.com

jdemaris

Post by jdemaris » Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:10 pm

Dana Neumann wrote:Thanks for the reply's
How do I determine if the rail hight is right or not?
I don't recall the exact specs on the 2010 track chain. A new chain on a 450 is 3.38" high. When 100% worn past any hardness it is 3.1"

A 350 chain is 3.18" high when new and 2.95" high when 100% worn out.

I had to take a link out of my 1010 this Spring to finish a job. It was no matter to me since the rollers, sprockets, and track chains were already garbage. It bought me about 10 more days of moving dirt before I could no longer keep the tracks on. I then fixed it. No problem. No harm done other then the parts that needed replacement anyway.

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Tigerhaze
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Post by Tigerhaze » Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:55 pm

Dana Neumann wrote:Thanks for the reply's
How do I determine if the rail hight is right or not?
Dana, you measure from the top of the link (where it bolts to track pad) to the bottom (part that rides on rollers and idlers) and compare to wear charts.

Again, do you have an early (pre-42,000 S/N) or late (post 42,000 S/N) model 2010? They use different links. If late model, then same specs as 350 which JdeMaris provided in the previous post. If early, then same as 440/1010 which I don't have the specs for but Lavoy could probably measure from a link.
(1) JD Straight 450 crawler dozer with manual outside blade; (2) JD 2010 diesel crawler loaders; (1) JD 2010 diesel dozer with hydraulic 6-way blade; (2) Model 50 backhoe attachments, misc. other construction equipment

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Tigerhaze
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Post by Tigerhaze » Wed Nov 07, 2012 7:50 pm

Dana, many of our opinions are from a longer-term persepctive on availability of undercarriage parts for a 2010 which varies from poor to non existent and very expensive. Unfortunately the parts in an undercarriage are a system and when one part shows wear, it generally all requires replacement. Using a new part with old parts generally accelrates the wear on the new parts.

Yet I undertsand your plight as my 2010 has a similar problem as you can find in my photo post in "Show and Tell".

Have you checked to make sure there isn't another reason for the derailment (front idler out of alignment, bad roller flange, etc.).? There are shims that can be adjusted on the front idler if that is the case. Have someone drive it in a straight line while you watch from behind so you can see if there is a reason other than the track itself.

If derailment is only happening when making a sharp turn or working on side slopes, then avoid those situations. That was a big cause for several of my derailments until i got to know my 2010 better.

Derailment may simply be caused by the "snake" in the track due to worn pins which will not be fixed by taking a link out or tunring pins/bushings; it only is fixed with new pins/bushings..

Just some suggestions to get you back in business for the short term until you can assess the undercarriage as a whole.
(1) JD Straight 450 crawler dozer with manual outside blade; (2) JD 2010 diesel crawler loaders; (1) JD 2010 diesel dozer with hydraulic 6-way blade; (2) Model 50 backhoe attachments, misc. other construction equipment

Dana Neumann
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Post by Dana Neumann » Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:46 am

Thanks for the in-depth info on under lying factors Tigerhaze. your description of when it happens is dead on... always on a grade and turning....
Would alignment cause this problem?

The benefit i have is.. my dad has the same machine that he has offered for part and his under carriage is good. the only problem is that his dozer does not run witch will make it more difficult to remove the tracks.

Thanks Again Dana
You guys are great....

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Tigerhaze
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Post by Tigerhaze » Thu Nov 08, 2012 6:40 pm

Dana Neumann wrote:Thanks for the in-depth info on under lying factors Tigerhaze. your description of when it happens is dead on... always on a grade and turning....
Would alignment cause this problem?
It may be aggrevating the problem but on my machine it often happens because my tensioner will leak down so too much slack in the track over time and I don't have rock guards over the bottom rollers.

When it derails running parallel to a side slope, it is because the weight of the cralwer is on the downhill track and without the rock guards uneven ground can cause it to derail under a bottom roller first. When doing a sharp turn, I think it happens between the sprocket and rear bottom roller because the opposite track is pushing the stopped track sideways off the sprocket and bottom roller.

When you've run them enough for a while there will be a very distinct noise (sort of a thumping and grating sound) that is warning you that it is close to derailing and I pay attention to that so have greatly lessened my derailments. Always better to stop and see what is happening as if starting to derail you can use the loader bucket to get the bottom rollers off the ground and realign the track back on. Best is to not run parallel to sideslopes with worn undercarriage if you can help it.
(1) JD Straight 450 crawler dozer with manual outside blade; (2) JD 2010 diesel crawler loaders; (1) JD 2010 diesel dozer with hydraulic 6-way blade; (2) Model 50 backhoe attachments, misc. other construction equipment

Dana Neumann
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Post by Dana Neumann » Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:27 am

It seems to happen when i go down a slope and i am assuming that happens because the tension springs compresses and the window's in my track and the fact that my rear sprocket is worn create slack. so if i turn it will pop off.
This is why i was thinking of taking a link out.
Rock guards would be nice as well.
Thanks again

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Lavoy
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Post by Lavoy » Fri Nov 09, 2012 9:15 am

Very doubtful your springs are compressing, and sprocket wear would not change tension from tight to loose in a short time frame, or from one to the other. Only thing taking a link out will allow you to do is tighten the tracks if you have no adjustment left.
Lavoy
Parts and restoration for antique and late model John Deere crawlers.
Owner and moderator www.jdcrawlers.com

jdemaris

Post by jdemaris » Fri Nov 09, 2012 9:54 am

Dana Neumann wrote:It seems to happen when i go down a slope and i am assuming that happens because the tension springs compresses and the window's in my track and the fact that my rear sprocket is worn create slack. so if i turn it will pop off.
This is why i was thinking of taking a link out.
Rock guards would be nice as well.
Thanks again
It's probably a combination of wear and the track being out of alignment. Basically you've got a chain riding on a toothed sprocket and 7 rollers with raised ribs or flanges to keep the track from coming off sideways. The 5 bottom rollers have flanges on the OD IF those flanges aren't broken off. The 6th roller - i.e. the front "idler" had a raised center-rib which also might be worn. The 7th "top roller" also uses a center-rib to keep the chain on. When those ribs and flanges are worn, and a chain is out of alignment - it binds, puts pressure on the shock-spring, and "walks" off. Very common for a worn undercarriage. If out of alignment it will do it even when going straight. If IN alignment - but with worn tracks - the tracks will "snake" and tend to come off on side-hills. If you get the problem mostly when coming down hills, it's probably because the track is pushing to the rear and getting slack by the sprockets and rear rollers. It's all kind of moot anyway. If the undercarriage is worn out - it's going to throw tracks. If you take a link out, get the chain tight and can keep in in alignment you might get some extra use out of it.

Take your crawler down a slope a little, and then stop- get off and go look at your front idler. The raised rib in the front idler should be in the middle of the track chain. If it's rubbing on one side or the other - the track is out of "angle" alignment.

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Cutting a link

Post by JWB Contracting » Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:31 am

We have done this on both a 350 and a 450 loader. These were our yard cats and both had rock guards installed. The 350 got so bad that it would throw a rail in soft ground, been parked for 10 plus years.

Most of our job site crawlers are widepads so you get used to steering and approaching side hills / difficult terrain with caution. Try planning your work to minimize sidehilling and turning.

If your rails are too poor for new pins and bushings go for it. If your rail height is good you might want to install your free set and then sell your old set to someone that would foot the bill for pins and bushings. I am finding it difficult to get good used undercarriage for any Deere crawlers, and I am betting others will agree.
Jason Benesch

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