john deere 2010 diesel...a lot of grey/white smoke

General help and support for your Lindeman through 2010 John Deere crawler
05victorylly
430 crawler
430 crawler
Posts: 62
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:14 pm
Location: Western MA

john deere 2010 diesel...a lot of grey/white smoke

Post by 05victorylly » Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:20 pm

I picked up this 2010 about a month ago or so. I have been working on getting it all adjusted, greased, maintained and ready for some hard work around the house.

I have gotten the track adjusters fixed, put a new exhaust on it, greased up all the fitting and replaced a few grease zirks.

The issue I am trying to get all figured out right now is the hard starting and smoking. I have a new set of glow plugs on the way and will test the compression when I have the glow plugs out. It is a little hard to start (likely due to glow plugs and slow cranking) and it smokes a lot when cold (white/grey) and continues to do so pretty much all the time. The only time it seems to get better is when you actually run the machine a little harder.

When I am running the machine digging or driving up steeper grades after its nice and warm it will actually clear up significantly even when throttled down and idled, but after a few minutes of idling it will start smoking again. Also when idling fast or slow it appears to have a small miss or hiccup that gets worse with no load engine speed. It is not as obvious when under load and warm.

I am thinking its fuel related...pump, injectors or filters. I have new filters but am not sure how confirm the injectors are working correctly. It does not appear to be loosing coolant, but I really have not put enough hours on it to know for sure.
IH 500 6-day dozer , JD 2010 track loader, Ford 1900 4x4

User avatar
Lavoy
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 10937
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 8:32 pm
Location: North Dakota
Contact:

Post by Lavoy » Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:27 am

All 1010/2010 diesel will start hard or not at all without glow plugs, so that is normal. Usually they will smoke a little on start up til they get some heat in them.
Smoke could be injectors, best way to check is take them out and have them tested.
Lavoy
Parts and restoration for antique and late model John Deere crawlers.
Owner and moderator www.jdcrawlers.com

User avatar
gregjo1948
350 crawler
350 crawler
Posts: 1000
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 5:58 am
Location: Newark Valley,NY,USA

2010 white/grey smoke

Post by gregjo1948 » Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:08 am

That color smoke sounds like coolant in cylinders to me. Try preasure check of radiator. Rough low speed might be injector pump or simply coolant in cylinders affecting proper firing. Good luck.
JD 350B diesel 6way blade, Case 580B Loader/backhoe, Farmall 504 high crop w/ flail boom mower, International 404 , International 284 diesel w/belly mower, 1972 Ford F600 dump truck, Galion 3-5 roller, Allis Chalmers D17, 1620 Ford

User avatar
Tigerhaze
350 crawler
350 crawler
Posts: 2278
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:13 pm
Location: West-Central MO

Post by Tigerhaze » Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:19 am

There is A LOT of good information on these issues in the post archives on here. I don't have time today to link to them, but I know there are posted a number of them on the skip/smoke issue and the hard starting. Use the keyword and author search together to find them- you will find there are about a dozen of us that routinely discuss 2010s. Skip/smoke when cold and not under load sounds like a timing issue on your injection pump but I am not the expert that some others like Jdemaris or Lavoy. You can check timing with a plastic window which is discussed in these posts.

Here are a number of tips on the hard starting- as Lavoy said they start hard especially in cold weather. Besides needing good glow plugs, the primer pump on the dash is helpful and if you have the HLR transmission there is a disconnect lever under your left foot that you pull up and lock during starting- it will allow the engine to turn over faster. Just remember to let the lever back down after starting- you won't be able to use the hydraulics until you do so anyhow if you have the rear mounted Cessna pump. Also having a fresh starter will make a BIG difference- mine starts so much easier because of that alone. Whatever you do, DO NOT use ether as it can damage the rings and precombustion chambers. All of these tips and more are also in the archives.
(1) JD Straight 450 crawler dozer with manual outside blade; (2) JD 2010 diesel crawler loaders; (1) JD 2010 diesel dozer with hydraulic 6-way blade; (2) Model 50 backhoe attachments, misc. other construction equipment

05victorylly
430 crawler
430 crawler
Posts: 62
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:14 pm
Location: Western MA

Post by 05victorylly » Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:44 am

Thanks for the responses guys! I will pressure test the coolant system to see if it is leaking.

Also another question regarding ether....I know i can do damage if used too much or at the wrong time. But I cannot think of any good reason it cannot assist in cold starting WITHOUT glow plugs on and of course in small quantities. I want to get this thing all sorted out so it needs no assistance starting, but just trying to understand the logic.

Many diesel tractors of this era and newer came stock with an ether can spray system to assist in starting. And many machine operators tell me its not a problem as long as its not used w/ glow plugs and of course not used to keep it running just to get it to fire at first.
IH 500 6-day dozer , JD 2010 track loader, Ford 1900 4x4

User avatar
Tigerhaze
350 crawler
350 crawler
Posts: 2278
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:13 pm
Location: West-Central MO

Post by Tigerhaze » Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:33 am

This is an indirect injected engine and has delicate top rings and precombustion chambers- at the time my glow plugs didn't work either and I used ether but always in small (1 second) bursts (before I knew better). I regret doing it now because I am pretty sure that I did some damage to the top rings. All I had to do was get my starter rebuilt and new glow plugs and now I NEVER have to use ether. Parts to rebuild the 2010 engines are pricey and some are NLA (no longer available)- the precombustion chambers may be one of them.

Operators that tell you it is OK do not understand situation with the Deere 2010 engines.

Do a search in here for "2010 ether" and you can read some more about it.
(1) JD Straight 450 crawler dozer with manual outside blade; (2) JD 2010 diesel crawler loaders; (1) JD 2010 diesel dozer with hydraulic 6-way blade; (2) Model 50 backhoe attachments, misc. other construction equipment

User avatar
jtrichard
350 crawler
350 crawler
Posts: 1883
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 9:48 pm
Location: Joshua Tree CA

Post by jtrichard » Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:10 pm

Last edited by jtrichard on Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2010 with 622 dozer with mod. 35 ripper and a 2010 with 622 dozer bought in 1969 and a 2010 loader with drott and mod. 36 ripper

User avatar
jtrichard
350 crawler
350 crawler
Posts: 1883
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 9:48 pm
Location: Joshua Tree CA

Post by jtrichard » Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:20 pm

trying to quote and cant figure it out
2010 with 622 dozer with mod. 35 ripper and a 2010 with 622 dozer bought in 1969 and a 2010 loader with drott and mod. 36 ripper

05victorylly
430 crawler
430 crawler
Posts: 62
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:14 pm
Location: Western MA

Post by 05victorylly » Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:38 pm

Tigerhaze wrote:This is an indirect injected engine and has delicate top rings and precombustion chambers- at the time my glow plugs didn't work either and I used ether but always in small (1 second) bursts (before I knew better). I regret doing it now because I am pretty sure that I did some damage to the top rings. All I had to do was get my starter rebuilt and new glow plugs and now I NEVER have to use ether. Parts to rebuild the 2010 engines are pricey and some are NLA (no longer available)- the precombustion chambers may be one of them.

Operators that tell you it is OK do not understand situation with the Deere 2010 engines.

Do a search in here for "2010 ether" and you can read some more about it.

Thank you very much for explaining that to me. I guess I better stay away from the ether. Does anyone know if there is a way to see if the top ring and precombustion chambers are damaged already?

Also does anyone have a picture of those chambers? I am having a hard time imagining what they look like.
IH 500 6-day dozer , JD 2010 track loader, Ford 1900 4x4

05victorylly
430 crawler
430 crawler
Posts: 62
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:14 pm
Location: Western MA

Post by 05victorylly » Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:31 pm

Lavoy wrote:All 1010/2010 diesel will start hard or not at all without glow plugs, so that is normal. Usually they will smoke a little on start up til they get some heat in them.
Smoke could be injectors, best way to check is take them out and have them tested.
Lavoy
Ok i'll have to find somewhere local that can test them. Also does it make sense that it would smoke less under load and when warm...but then starts to smoke more when i idle it down?
IH 500 6-day dozer , JD 2010 track loader, Ford 1900 4x4

User avatar
jtrichard
350 crawler
350 crawler
Posts: 1883
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 9:48 pm
Location: Joshua Tree CA

Post by jtrichard » Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:33 pm

cly. temp is dropping at low RPM ....under very heavy load it will smoke heavy black smoke thats normal... white/grey is fuel not burning blue is oil consumption
2010 with 622 dozer with mod. 35 ripper and a 2010 with 622 dozer bought in 1969 and a 2010 loader with drott and mod. 36 ripper

User avatar
woodsman
40C crawler
40C crawler
Posts: 23
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2012 5:54 pm
Location: Hudson Falls, NY

Hard starting 2010

Post by woodsman » Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:09 pm

I doubled up the battery on my 1010 and it spins over much better and longer. A real help when the temp goes down. Series wiring of course.
Martin
1-1010 crawler with 6 way blade; International 510 loader on rubber; Kubota KH-61 excavator
Did have:
5-1010 crawlers; 3-1010 loaders

05victorylly
430 crawler
430 crawler
Posts: 62
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:14 pm
Location: Western MA

Post by 05victorylly » Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:16 pm

jtrichard wrote:cly. temp is dropping at low RPM ....under very heavy load it will smoke heavy black smoke thats normal... white/grey is fuel not burning blue is oil consumption
I have a decent amount of experience with direct injected tractors and trucks, but never a system like the 2010. I am not afraid of a little black smoke, or any smoke for that mater, just want to be sure I understand why its happening so I can decide if something needs repaired or if its mostly just the nature of the indirect injected 2010's.

Just a guess, but i am thinking a set of injectors may be needed. I have a new set of glow plugs on the way. I had it running for about 20 minutes this afternoon and it doesn't seem to be missing anymore.
IH 500 6-day dozer , JD 2010 track loader, Ford 1900 4x4

User avatar
Tigerhaze
350 crawler
350 crawler
Posts: 2278
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:13 pm
Location: West-Central MO

Post by Tigerhaze » Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:18 pm

05victorylly wrote: Thank you very much for explaining that to me. I guess I better stay away from the ether. Does anyone know if there is a way to see if the top ring and precombustion chambers are damaged already?

Also does anyone have a picture of those chambers? I am having a hard time imagining what they look like.
My understanding is that you would mainly see damage in the form of lower compression due to leakage around the top ring and potentially gouging of the cylinder (liner) wall. Similarly if the precombustion chambers crack, you would have leakage around them as well. However I am not an expert on that- there are a number of Deere mechanics on here that can verify.

If you want to see a parts diagram for the precombustion chambers, you can go to this link:

http://jdpc.deere.com/jdpc/servlet/com. ... ervlet_Alt

Then type in 2010 in the model search at top left, then click on 728- 2010 series crawler tractors . You will get the PDF version of the parts manual- the precombustion chambers are on page 44 of the manual (page 46 of the PDF).

Deere actually calls the precombustion chambers the upper and lower turbulence chambers (parts 5 and 13); if you look on your engine the upper chambers are the "plates" that bolt to the head that the injectors and glow plugs are screwed into. The lower chambers are not visible- I believe these are the ones damaged if excessive ether is used. BTW, I checked the online JD parts ordering and those parts are NLA.
Last edited by Tigerhaze on Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
(1) JD Straight 450 crawler dozer with manual outside blade; (2) JD 2010 diesel crawler loaders; (1) JD 2010 diesel dozer with hydraulic 6-way blade; (2) Model 50 backhoe attachments, misc. other construction equipment

User avatar
Tigerhaze
350 crawler
350 crawler
Posts: 2278
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:13 pm
Location: West-Central MO

Post by Tigerhaze » Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:36 pm

05victorylly wrote: Just a guess, but i am thinking a set of injectors may be needed. I have a new set of glow plugs on the way. I had it running for about 20 minutes this afternoon and it doesn't seem to be missing anymore.
I believe the 2010 injectors use replaceable nozzle tips so you would only need the tips, not the whole injector. They are not like the pencil injectors on later John Deere models that do not have replaceable tips.

There is a serial number change between the early and late model 2010s for injectors. Make sure you get the right ones if you buy new.
(1) JD Straight 450 crawler dozer with manual outside blade; (2) JD 2010 diesel crawler loaders; (1) JD 2010 diesel dozer with hydraulic 6-way blade; (2) Model 50 backhoe attachments, misc. other construction equipment

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 39 guests