Yes, another Detroit two stroke oil question

[Lavoy]

Okay, I know that there is a plethora of info out there on what oil to use in the two stroke Detroit diesels. After hours of searching and reading, it is quite clear that Delo 100 is the overwhelming choice. The reason/s I find are due to its low ash content being critical to longevity in the old Detroits. What I don't like is it is only available in 30 or 40 wt. Yes I know you can put engine heaters in them, and I will, but it was -20 here last night, and that is awfully dam cold on straight weight oil, and we were supposed to be -30!
SOOOOO, I have been searching for a multi-weight alternative, preferably in synthetic, but not a deal breaker. So far, the only one I have found specifically labelled for two stroke Detroit is Schaeffer #114CNG SYNTHETIC PLUS CNG ENGINE OIL SAE 15W-40. Its specofications are below, but the main one that caught my eye is the sulfated ash content at .6%, and from what I have found, DELO 100 is .76% sulfated ash.
On tejascoach.com there is some pretty good info on what oil to use in the old Detroits, along with some specifactions of different oils, look into it if you have a chance.
Any thoughts on this? I have run Schaeffer products before, so not afraid of them, but is my thought process correct on the sulfated ash numbers?
Lavoy

[whiteclipse16]

I thought one of the main things that always comes up with this question and that it specifically states in the manual is to NOT use multi-weight oil.

There are many more knowledgeable on here than me so they can weight in.

[Lavoy]

That has always been my assumption too, but from what I have found the main beef is the low ash. I know some say that the straight weight is better, especially in engines that run long intervals, and have no cold start up issues, and I don't doubt this at all, my concern is cold starting.
Lavoy

[scampr]

No expert here but i would go along with Lavoy on this.. the oils have improved a lot since the 1959 !!!!!

[Lu47Dan]

Lavoy, join over on http://www.shopfloortalk.com/forums/index.php and pick Shade Tree Welder's (Ron Lemke) brain on what oil to use in them. Ron is a wealth of knowledge when it comes to lubrication.
Dan.

[mapaduke@yahoo.com]

Im not a diesel expert but the construction co I use to work for had Detroit's and they used ERSA 15-40 in them and they were almost always started with ether. No place to plug them in on a job sight.
Just my 2 cents.

[DukeofDeere]

All my diesels have 15/40 synthetic.

Duke

[Lavoy]

I know we had a local guy that ran a 6V-92T in a semi tractor hauling gravel. He ran not sure what for oil, but it was not the right stuff, took the engine out in relatively short order. After the rebuild, ran the correct oil, no more problems.
Detroit is very, very specific on the two strokes to run a straight weight, low ash oil. Even the Schaeffer says recommended for out of warranty two stroke Detroit, so it appears that it does not meet factory spec,
Lavoy

[jtrichard]

try this section 4 page 18 http://www.mtu-online.com/fileadmin/fm- ... 61_35E.pdf it gives temps and what wt of oil

[tuney443]

Lavoy--years ago after I had my 6-53 rebuilt by my local DDA dealer,they explicitly told me ONLY run straight 30 or 40 wt.oil,low ash,I believe back then the big name for this was Kendall which as I'm sure you know is good oil.Matter of fact I still have some left which goes into my little 2-53'r in my 59' 440 loader.Here's the best explanation/specs for this subject:

Detroit Diesel Allison Lube Oil Recommendations for
Detroit Diesel 2-Cycle Engines


This information is VERY important for anyone purchasing any truck with a Two Cycle Detroit Diesel Engine
from DDC publication 6SA314 8901

Lubricant Recommendation - Detroit Diesel Two Cycle
Engines

SAE Viscosity Grade 40 API Classification: CD-II, (Note: CD-II is an obsolete SAE Viscosity Grade 40 API Classification: CD-II, (Note: CD-II is an obsolete designation replaced by the current API Rating CF-2) Military Spec: MIL-L-2104D

Sulfated Ash: Less than 1.0% - This is the only engine oil recommended for Detroit Diesel two-cycle engines. Lubricants meeting these criteria have provided maximum engine life when used in conjunction with recommended oil drain and filter maintenance schedules. (For additional oil selection criteria, see publication 7SE270.) The API category CD-II (CF-2)(Note: CD-II is an obsolete designation replaced by the current API Rating CF-2) is relatively new and may not be fully in use at the time of this publication.



(NOTE: This publication was published in 1989) API category CD may be used provided the recommended military specification is satisfied. Oils with API designation "CE" are not recommended in DDC two-cycle engines unless accompanied by CD-II (CF-2) (Note: CD-II is an obsolete designation replaced by the current API Rating CF-2)

Single Grade-High Ash Content Lube Oils

High ash oils (greater than 1,000 mass % ASTM D-874) tend to form excessive deposits on engine parts, resulting in impairment of their function (exhaust
valve closure, for example). These are NOT recommended, except where the continuous use of high sulfur content diesel fuels (greater than 0.5 mass %)
is unavoidable and where a high TBN, LOW ASH oil is not available.

Multi-Vis Oils

Less than optimum engine life must be expected when using 15w-40 oils. Multi-vis oils tend to break down due to mechanical and thermal stress which results in
a loss of viscosity and premature engine wear. Multi-vis oils do help cranking when temperatures are below 32 degrees F (0 degrees C). However, once the
engine starts, the major advantage of the multi-vis oils is exhausted. When the engine reaches operating temperature, the internal engine temperatures and
pressures vary little from an engine operating in much warmer climates. This is when the 2 cycle engine benefits from the superior protection of a 40 wt.

Starting aids such as automatic ether systems and /or on-board auxiliary heaters provide more reliable starting without sacrificing engine life.

Function of Lubricating Oils

All diesel engines require heavy duty lubricating oils. Basic requirements of such oils are: Lubricating quality, High heat resistance, Control of contaminants, Lubricating Quality.

The reduction of friction and wear by maintaining an oil film between moving parts is the primary requisite of a lubricant. Film thickness and its ability to
prevent metal-to-metal contact of moving parts is related to oil viscosity. The optimums for Detroit Diesel two-cycle engines are SAE 40 grade oils.

High Heat Resistance

Temperature is the most important factor in determining the rate at which deterioration or oxidation of the lubricating oil will occur. The oil should have adequate thermal stability at elevated temperatures, thereby precluding formation of harmful carbonaceous and/or ash deposits.

Control of Contaminants

The piston and compression rings must ride on a film of oil to minimize wear and prevent cylinder seizure. At normal rates of consumption, oil reaches a
temperature zone at the upper part of the piston where rapid oxidation and carbonization can occur. In addition, as oil circulates through the engine, it is
continuously contaminated by soot, acids, and water originating from combustion. Until they are exhausted, detergent and dispersant additives aid in keeping
sludge and varnish from depositing on engine parts. But such additives in excessive quantities can result in detrimental ash deposits. If abnormal ash deposits form on the exhaust valve seats, early engine failure may result. Oil that is carried up the cylinder liner wall is normally consumed during engine operation. The oil and additives leave carbonaceous and/or ash deposits when subjected to the elevated temperatures of the combustion chamber. The amount of deposits is influenced by the composition, additive content, engine temperature, and oil consumption rate.

Oil Quality

Oil quality is the responsibility of the oil supplier. (The term "oil supplier" is applicable to refiners, blenders, and re branders of petroleum products). Oil
quality can be affected by handling cleanliness, contamination, dirt, water, etc.

Engine Parts Can Tell The Difference in Oils

The following oil performance parameters should be compared:
Ring Sticking tendencies and/or ring conditions, piston skirt scuffing and cylinder liner wear and scuffing, exhaust valve face and seat deposits, piston pin and slipper bushing wear, overall valve train and bearing wear levels

Oil Caution

There are hundreds of commercial crankcase oils marketed today. Obviously, engine manufacturers or users cannot completely evaluate the numerous
commercial oils. The selection of a suitable lubricant in consultation with a reliable oil supplier and observance of his oil drain recommendations (based on
used oil samples analysis and experience), and provide filter maintenance, will provide the best assurance of satisfactory oil performance.

It should be noted that lube oil manufactures may reformulate and oil while maintaining the American Petroleum Institute classification, or may reformulate
to a new API classification and continue the brand name designation. For example, SE oils being reformulated to SF letter code classification may
perform differently after this reformulation. A close working relationship with the lube oil manufacturer should be maintained so that any reformulation can be
reviewed and a decision made as to its effect on continued satisfactory performance.

Detroit Diesel Used Lube Oil Analysis Program

The Detroit Diesel lube oil analysis program is recommended for monitoring the condition of the crankcase oil in all engines. Primarily, used lube oil analyses indicate the condition of the oil but not necessarily the condition of the engine. Never tear down an engine based solely on the analysis results obtained from a single used oil sample. However, the condition of the engine should be investigated using conventional mechanical and/or electronic diagnostic instruments. Frequently, visual inspections are all that is required to detect
problem areas related to engine wear. It is also prudent to obtain another oil sample from the suspected distressed unit for analysis.



Abnormal concentrations of some contaminants such as diesel fuel, coolant, road salt, or airborne dirt cannot be tolerated for prolonged periods. Their presence will be reflected in accelerated engine wear, which can result in less than optimum engine life. The oil should be changed immediately if any contamination is present in concentrations exceeding the warning limits.

Click for more information for Detroit Diesel engines from the official site - Two Cycle Detroit Diesel Engine

[DukeofDeere]

Time to park it only in a heated shed when the anticipated temp will be too low.
Start it there and stick with the correct oil for this engine.


Duke

[Lavoy]

I did plug mine in again the other day for a few hours in the morning so I could push snow. After about 4 hours warming time, the head was hot to the touch, and the oil pan was definitely more than warm to the touch, I would guess in the 80-90 degree range. This is at temps in the teens or less.
Lavoy

[pop pop]

brrrrrr, at minus 30 you gotta warm the diesel too, cant you just stay inside where its nice and warm and drink coffee? and talk with us?
haha, i use to be the same, would go stir crazy in the house.

[Lavoy]

I had it plugged in day before yesterday for a while, started it and let it run for a little while. I happened to grab the oil filter canister, and it was very warm to the touch, so the oil pan heater definitely works, I am impressed.
Lavoy