440 ICD

[gregjo1948]

I picked up my new project. 440 ICD in need of a lot of TLC. I'll be needing help from you people for info and parts. I couldn't let it go to scrap or parts. Inside manual 6 way blade , 5 speed, reverser, and a gearmatic winch. Detroit started a little slow, even using starting fluid. I don't know if starting fluid,( used correctly) will harm a Detroit. When it was started using the fluid, it was still the seller's machine. I didn't feel I should tell him not to do it because I didn't know of any harm. After running a few minutes, it started without the fluid. I've never had a small Detroit and don't know the best starting proceedure. Thanks for any advice, gregjo1948

[pop pop]

welcome,
you've picked up one of the preferred classics.
a running one at that!
starting fluid is used to start some of the detroits on this forum,
quite a few i think especially in the cold winter locations.
let us know how it runs and what help you will need from the bunch of us.
there are several others located near you,
p.s. thanks for putting in your location.
:D

[jtrichard]

i have a 53 series Detroit and have never had any problems with starting fluid use

[Gil]

Starter fluid (in moderation) is OK for a JD440 ICD; it does not have glow plugs. When you say it starts slow, do you mean it takes a long time for it to fire, or that the engine turns over slowly. If it is the latter, you should work on that first. You need the engine to turn over rapidly for it to start easily. Major culprits are a weak 12V battery, poor battery cables, or a starter that need to be rebuilt.

If starting slowly means the engine takes a long time before it fires, there could be a number of problems. First thing to do is run it some and see if you have any other engine issues when you put it to work. Does it loose power under load, run smoothly, etc.? Buy the service manual for the diesel as well as the service manual for the JD440IC which covers everything other than the diesel engine.

One note. This engine should run at full rated rpm. I would not say full throttle because your throttle and governor may not be adjusted correctly. In any case, do not lug the engine. If you let it sit at a low loping idle it will not get enough oil. If you run it or do work with it at low rpm you will do even more harm. Once you get some experience with how it runs, you can post any concerns you have here. Lots of knowledge on this board. Gil

[gregjo1948]

Thanks Guys for your Detroit input. The slow starting wasn't the cranking speed. It just seemed to crank a while before it started firing. I've had 2 Detroits before. 1- 475hp 2 stroke 8V92 and 1- 450hp series 60 4 stoke. Both were in road tractors and I liked both. The 475 hp 2 stroke had no lugging power, so down shifting on the hills had to be done no lower than 1800 rpm or you would have to drop 2 gears. I guess it the same with 2 stroke bikes and sleds; they feed off from rpms not torque. I'm thinking to get top performance from this baby Detroit, I'll need to keep it wound tight. Thanks Gil for the low rpm damage info. I would like to know what other models that I can interchange undercarrage parts with. I'm going to need just about everything. Thanks again, gregjo 1948

[Lavoy]

The 53 series does not start anything like the 71's or 92's, maybe close if you have N series pistons and injectors installed. Ether use is no problem, it is listed right in the Deere literature covering the Detroit in the 440's, main thing is to be sensible in it's usage. The other interesting thing is Deere specifically lists the lugging ability of the engine, and the ability to use the engine over a wide range of RPM's. I know on the bigger two stokes this is a nono, but guessig with this engine being at the absolute bottom of the hp rating range for the 2-53, and with the smallest injectors and running well below the RPM they run in other applications, they must have figured the risk of overfueling was non-existent.
One thing that suprised me is if you look at the torque curve for the Detroit vs the late 440 gas, the Detroit is higher torque across the RPM band, and yields about 12% higher ultimate torque than the gas. Given the two strokes well known history for lack of torque, I did not expect this.
Lavoy

[gregjo1948]

WOW Lavoy ! If I'm understanding your info, I can run my baby Detroit at most any rpm without causing damage and expect more torque than the gas counterpart. I've had 3 420 loaders and 1 M on rubber and thought, for their size, they had ample torque. I'm anxious to play with my new toy. Thanks, gregjo1948

[Lavoy]

By the factory Deere specs, yes, it yields better torque across the PRM range. I gave away the literature piece that showed the HP and Torque comparisons, but I will see if I have it in anything else.
Keep in mind that this is also in comparison to the late 440 gas which is higher HP than the early 440's, and I assume more torque as well. I wish they had a chart comaparing the early and late gas to see the difference too. I know there is a 3 HP difference, but no idea on the torque.
Lavoy

[scampr]

I usually run mine about 1/2 throttle and it has loads or torque and seems fine.I worry that full power i will break things..Plus i am old and slow myself..lol

[Lavoy]

I kind of resemble that implication!
Lavoy

[gregjo1948]

I'm not too concerned with the engine now, but I would like to know what JD models have interchangable undercarrage parts.( serial # 455664) How good is a chain, if I can make a circle with it on the shop floor? I can't afford new, so I'll be looking for used parts or even another machine for parts. Are all of us on this site OLD? gregjo1948

[JD440ICD2006]

In respect for a healthy debate, not a dispute, I will weight in on what an 86 year old DD mechanic shared with me.
He said that the 2-53, just like the other DD's, is built for one speed - wide open. It is balanced for that speed.
Can it be run without "blowing up" at lower speeds? Sure.
The problem is that the design keeps itself cleaned and at the proper temp at just under 2,000 RPM.
Yes, it is at the low end of it's capacity to produce HP, BUT, it still needs the speed and heat to run properly.
Over time running at lower speeds, it will build up crud.
Run it at the high speed setting and use gears to control speed. You will be much happer for much longer with the results.
Two reasons some of them are hard to start in warm weather: Over use of either and running at lower than rated speeds for long periods of time.
The fact that the 2-53 was a knee jerk reaction for JD to have a "diesel crawler" for two model years until they admitted publically to the New Gens would wreak of limited knowledge of these engines.

[gregjo1948]

A DD mechanic told me years ago; To drive a truck with a DD, you first need to slam your hand in the door to achive the correct attitude. gregjo1948

[Lavoy]

I can understand that, but wide open on a 2-53 is 2600RPM, and max power is in the mid 60HP range, so in a Deere, it is running at 2/3 throttle all the time, and one half HP. Considering Deere is the one that would have to stand the warranty if it didn't work, I would have to assume that if they put it in writing, at least in regards to the 440, that varying RPM for some reason is acceptable. My assumption being minimum HP levels, tiny injectors and reduced RPM.
I would assume that if you were running a 318 Detroit at 159HP instead of 318, it would be virtually impossible to do any damage to the engine by pulling it at lower RPM's due to greatly reduced ability to over fuel.
I could be wrong, and as a general rule on the two strokes I agree, but have to believe what Deere says about this one.

[JD440ICD2006]

Lavoy,

Great points, and again I am sure that we will not blow one up from just running at lower RPM's.
With that said, the very nature of these is to run at a higher RPM to be efficient with the scavenging process. Also, the oil pressure is directly related to the RPM.
I have an original JD 440 ICD Ops Manual at the farm, I will look in there for sure.