So if the loader has what appears to be a continuous loop like the 2010 I should be good to go? What would be some tell tale signs of a closed center valve.
Also how to I search the archives?
Case backhoe on JD2010
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05victorylly
- 430 crawler
- Posts: 62
- Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:14 pm
- Location: Western MA
The bottom of this thread describes open and closed center hose routing differences better than I probably could- basically it is the difference between hose arrangements/hookups in series (open center) versus parallel (closed center).
http://www.jdcrawlers.com/messageboard/ ... ter+centre
I know there is a photo someone posted somewhere in the archives of how hoses enter the valve stack on an open center JD crawler but have been unable to find it.
When I say archives, I am informally referencing the "search" function at the top right on the screen. By typing in strategic keywords and user screenames, you can find information from up to many years ago on a wide range of subjects. I found the link above by using the keywords "closed AND center" and the username "jdemaris" since I knew he had written the description. It is a very handy way to find discussions I and others participated in many years ago
http://www.jdcrawlers.com/messageboard/ ... ter+centre
I know there is a photo someone posted somewhere in the archives of how hoses enter the valve stack on an open center JD crawler but have been unable to find it.
When I say archives, I am informally referencing the "search" function at the top right on the screen. By typing in strategic keywords and user screenames, you can find information from up to many years ago on a wide range of subjects. I found the link above by using the keywords "closed AND center" and the username "jdemaris" since I knew he had written the description. It is a very handy way to find discussions I and others participated in many years ago
(1) JD Straight 450 crawler dozer with manual outside blade; (2) JD 2010 diesel crawler loaders; (1) JD 2010 diesel dozer with hydraulic 6-way blade; (2) Model 50 backhoe attachments, misc. other construction equipment
These get a little beyond your direct question but there are a number of linked threads in this post are relevant to attaching a backhoe to a JD crawler that previously didn't have it so may be interesting or useful to you, and may even contain the post I mentioned:
http://www.jdcrawlers.com/messageboard/ ... alve+stack
UPDATE:
Ah, found the one I was thinking of- although specific to Deere applications this is helpful, with photos- go about halfway down on each page:
http://www.jdcrawlers.com/messageboard/ ... k&start=15
http://www.jdcrawlers.com/messageboard/ ... alve+stack
UPDATE:
Ah, found the one I was thinking of- although specific to Deere applications this is helpful, with photos- go about halfway down on each page:
http://www.jdcrawlers.com/messageboard/ ... k&start=15
(1) JD Straight 450 crawler dozer with manual outside blade; (2) JD 2010 diesel crawler loaders; (1) JD 2010 diesel dozer with hydraulic 6-way blade; (2) Model 50 backhoe attachments, misc. other construction equipment
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05victorylly
- 430 crawler
- Posts: 62
- Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:14 pm
- Location: Western MA
Tigerhaze : Thanks so much for the help!!! I am 100% clear on how my HYD. system on the 2010 works and how i need to hook up the hoe.
The only thing I cannot seem to figure out is how to tell if the hoe is open or closed center valve. I totally understand the difference, but telling the difference by looking at it confuses me.
If I recall correctly, the CASE 450 does have two hydraulic lines in the rear that are hooked together which seems to indicate that is has an open center valve.
Does anyone know a good way to tell what type of valve the hoe has?
The only thing I cannot seem to figure out is how to tell if the hoe is open or closed center valve. I totally understand the difference, but telling the difference by looking at it confuses me.
If I recall correctly, the CASE 450 does have two hydraulic lines in the rear that are hooked together which seems to indicate that is has an open center valve.
Does anyone know a good way to tell what type of valve the hoe has?
IH 500 6-day dozer , JD 2010 track loader, Ford 1900 4x4
put a pic of the hoe valve up if you can.... i would think there would be a relief valve on one end of the valve body if its open center and if on the tractor it came off of you HAVE to connect the two hoses together AND THERE IS NO OTHER VALVE TO "SWITCH"then it is open
2010 with 622 dozer with mod. 35 ripper and a 2010 with 622 dozer bought in 1969 and a 2010 loader with drott and mod. 36 ripper
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05victorylly
- 430 crawler
- Posts: 62
- Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:14 pm
- Location: Western MA
For the record, the fundamental purpose of power beyond is to prevent pressures from multiplying when pressure relief valves are connected in series with one another.
Let me explain: let's say we want a single pump to operate two independent double-acting hydraulic cylinders. Each cylinder has its own directional control valve, and each directional control valve has an integral pressure relief valve set at 2000-PSI.
The most logical thing to do is to connect the pump, and the two directional control valves in parallel. However, if both directional control valves are open center, parallel will not work because oil likes to follow the path of least resistance.
This leaves series as the only viable option, so let's go ahead and do it. Here's what happens when the pump starts up: oil flows from the pump, through the first directional control valve, through the second directional control valve, and then returns to the tank. The good news is, both circuits will work perfectly - and safely - as long as they are ONLY operated independently.
Now let's focus on the bad news. As the oil flows, both pressure relief valves are in series with one another, and when pressure relief valves are connected in series their pressures multiply.
Let's see how that happens: lets stall the cylinder rod and force the pump flow to pass across the first (closest to pump) directional control valve's pressure relief valve at 2000-PSI. Now, while maintaining the first cylinder rod in the stalled position, let's stall the second cylinder rod. Pump flow will now also be passing across the second directional control valve's pressure relief valve at 2000-PSI. We are asking the pump to push its flow across two 2000-PSI resistances, which are in series. This situation causes the pressure between the pump and the first pressure relief valve to rise to 4000-PSI, while the pressure between the outlet port of the first pressure relief valve and the second pressure relief valve remains at 2000-PSI.
There is a fix for this problem: it's called "power beyond." When a power beyond adapter (usually an option) is installed in the first valve it splits the flow path inside the valve into two. One leg of the split directs pump flow to the second directional control valve (in series), and the other leg directs the discharge side of the first directional control valve's pressure relief valve to a separate tank return line.
In a nutshell: power beyond provides a way to let a single pump operate two independent open center directional control valves in series, while their pressure relief valves remain in parallel. The configuration is actually "series/parallel."
I hope this helps. (got this from another site it might help)
Let me explain: let's say we want a single pump to operate two independent double-acting hydraulic cylinders. Each cylinder has its own directional control valve, and each directional control valve has an integral pressure relief valve set at 2000-PSI.
The most logical thing to do is to connect the pump, and the two directional control valves in parallel. However, if both directional control valves are open center, parallel will not work because oil likes to follow the path of least resistance.
This leaves series as the only viable option, so let's go ahead and do it. Here's what happens when the pump starts up: oil flows from the pump, through the first directional control valve, through the second directional control valve, and then returns to the tank. The good news is, both circuits will work perfectly - and safely - as long as they are ONLY operated independently.
Now let's focus on the bad news. As the oil flows, both pressure relief valves are in series with one another, and when pressure relief valves are connected in series their pressures multiply.
Let's see how that happens: lets stall the cylinder rod and force the pump flow to pass across the first (closest to pump) directional control valve's pressure relief valve at 2000-PSI. Now, while maintaining the first cylinder rod in the stalled position, let's stall the second cylinder rod. Pump flow will now also be passing across the second directional control valve's pressure relief valve at 2000-PSI. We are asking the pump to push its flow across two 2000-PSI resistances, which are in series. This situation causes the pressure between the pump and the first pressure relief valve to rise to 4000-PSI, while the pressure between the outlet port of the first pressure relief valve and the second pressure relief valve remains at 2000-PSI.
There is a fix for this problem: it's called "power beyond." When a power beyond adapter (usually an option) is installed in the first valve it splits the flow path inside the valve into two. One leg of the split directs pump flow to the second directional control valve (in series), and the other leg directs the discharge side of the first directional control valve's pressure relief valve to a separate tank return line.
In a nutshell: power beyond provides a way to let a single pump operate two independent open center directional control valves in series, while their pressure relief valves remain in parallel. The configuration is actually "series/parallel."
I hope this helps. (got this from another site it might help)
2010 with 622 dozer with mod. 35 ripper and a 2010 with 622 dozer bought in 1969 and a 2010 loader with drott and mod. 36 ripper
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05victorylly
- 430 crawler
- Posts: 62
- Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:14 pm
- Location: Western MA
jtrichard....makes sense thanks.
Also anyone know how far out the hoe mounts on a 2010 stick out? I have learned that the mount on mine is for a ripper and does not stick out as far as the ones for the hoe.
Since I will be combining/fabricating the mount from the case and JD one....so I can make is as "long" as I need.
From pictures it appears the hoe frame sticks out about 4-6" further than my ripper frame.
Also anyone know how far out the hoe mounts on a 2010 stick out? I have learned that the mount on mine is for a ripper and does not stick out as far as the ones for the hoe.
Since I will be combining/fabricating the mount from the case and JD one....so I can make is as "long" as I need.
From pictures it appears the hoe frame sticks out about 4-6" further than my ripper frame.
IH 500 6-day dozer , JD 2010 track loader, Ford 1900 4x4
-
05victorylly
- 430 crawler
- Posts: 62
- Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:14 pm
- Location: Western MA
-
05victorylly
- 430 crawler
- Posts: 62
- Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:14 pm
- Location: Western MA
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