1977 JD 450c loader wont turn

Sabaro · Post by **Sabaro** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 8:39 pm

My dad has a 450c (1977) loader that will not turn to the right anymore. Tractor just stops like the left track has no power. He has to pull real hard to turn to the left. He messed with the steering brake adjustment and got it way out of adjustment. He backed the left adjustment way too far off. I got it back to were the two frictions have about the same amount of throw. I have two questions, is there suppose to be oil in the steering adjustment housing? when I removed the plug on the right steering housing oil comes out. If I let it set for a few minuets the oil settles and I can remove the plug and no oil comes out. when I remove the plug on the left steering housing no oil comes out. even looks dry inside. The second question is which shop/repair manual do I need to work on this old girl, and where can I get it. I will take any and all help thanks guys.

jtrichard · Post by **jtrichard** » Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:28 am

first are you absolutely sure you have a 'C' model can you post the ser.#? if it is a C then it has wet clutches ...SOUNDS LIKE YOU DONT HAVE A SERVICE MANUAL ON THE MACHINE IF NOT GET ONE ...IF YOU ARE CLOSE ON THE ADJUSTMENT THEN YOUR LEFT CLUTCH IS SLIPPING if it is a C then sounds like you have no oil in your left clutch and your right may be over full again where is you operators manual

edit had my left and right switched... as for where to get books http://www.deere.com/wps/dcom/en_US/ser ... alogs.page or ebay (service) TM1102 (operators) OM-T62743 or OM-T71337 (parts) PC1443 .... make sure that you have a C model before you get books

Sabaro · Post by **Sabaro** » Thu Jun 06, 2013 8:09 pm

Thanks guys for the input. I agree I need a shop/repair manual do you know where I can get one? The serial # is 281175T. I also found a #450ca. The tractor decal also says 450c. I found this chart on this web site:
JD450C
1974 191829 - 219515
1975 219516 - 240367
1976 240368 - 261217
1977 261218 - 287194
1978 287195 - 313947
1979 313948 - 340909
1980 340910 - 355420
1981 355421 - 372281
1982 372282 - 389142
1983 389143 - ?
That's why I think its a 1977 450c. When I adjusted the steering back up I think I got the adjustment too tight because the brake pedal got way tight. so I adjusted the steering back off equally (friction throw) so that the foot brake was not so tight. We do have the owners manual and parts catalog, but I find the owners manual to be vague at best. One spot in the manual says 7 gal of oil per steering housing and another says 7 gal total. Thanks again guy's

Sabaro · Post by **Sabaro** » Thu Jun 06, 2013 8:13 pm

Sorry jtrichard I didn't read your post all the way before I answered. Thanks for the link.

jtrichard · Post by **jtrichard** » Thu Jun 06, 2013 8:22 pm

for service manual JD wants $200 plus shipping for printed on ebay there are 2 for under $140 shipped

Sabaro · Post by **Sabaro** » Thu Jun 06, 2013 8:52 pm

Thanks for your time. I'm in the middle of downloading the manual $90.

Sabaro · Post by **Sabaro** » Tue Aug 06, 2013 7:31 pm

Okay guys I got the manual and I was in the middle of trying to adjust the brakes and steering when I noticed that there was oil spraying in the left steering housing and not the right. I'm puzzled here as why one side is spraying and right is not. is there a hose or tubing that might have a hole and that's why I see and hear oil spraying? My dad did just change all oil (trans, finals, steering). when he pulled out the trans filter there was a bunch of what looks like fiber material in the filter. Looks like belting material all shredded up. steering clutches or brake bands? same as before we have power to the right track but not the left. tractor will turn to left but not to the right. left turn is weak. Will take any help.
Thanks Sabaro

Sabaro · Post by **Sabaro** » Fri Aug 09, 2013 10:55 am

Thanks for the help pdmech08. You confirmed what I was thinking. I'm trying to get as much info that I can before we open the steering housing up. Are there seals in the clutch pack that could be leaking? What do you think the material is that we found in the trans filter? It was like a soggy shredded fiber material. There was some small gauge pieces of wire in the filter also, reminded me of like a steel belting material. Something I forgot about is, a couple of years ago we found a ball bearing in the oil when we drained the steering housing. The ball bearing is about 3/8-1/2" in diameter. Could this be one of the two ball bearings in the clutch pack? I know that they are wet clutches, but is oil suppose to build up and puke out the inspection plug? Or is the oil building up because the pressure hose has a hole? The other side doesn't spray or build up oil. Is there a way to test or see if the hose is leaking with out pulling the covers off of the steering clutch housing? Thanks again Sabaro.

pdmech08 · Post by **pdmech08** » Fri Aug 09, 2013 11:44 am

There are seals in the clutch pack and there are also metal sealing rings between the clutch pack and the bearing quill that supports the ring gear. However if you're seeing oil spraying it is most likely the hose. They sometimes rub on other parts and this wears a hole in them or could be just a weak spot that let go. The material you found in the filter is most likely either the steering discs or the brake band or both. You'll know as soon as you get it apart. I'm not sure about the ball bearing. I don't recall a brg in there of that size. Could be from a prior failure or something that dropped in.
Oil should not puke out the insp plug and probably is building up due to the hose leak. Lastly, I don't know of a good way to test the hose before removing cover. I would say with 87.35% certainty its the hose leaking. HOWEVER. You may need to replace more than just the hose if the clutches are burned up. Good luck. Steve

Sabaro · Post by **Sabaro** » Fri Aug 09, 2013 5:04 pm

Thanks Steve. I agree it sounds like the pressure line has a hole. would the left side leak cause a problem with the right side? I did say that it steers to the left, but it's not turning very good. you have to pull back hard on the left friction for minimal turn. It might be time to replace both steering clutches and fix leak. I've been doing some research on steering clutches and I'm a little confused between disk and lining. Are there choices (fiber/metal)? Anny thought would be awesome.

Thanks Gerald

Sabaro · Post by **Sabaro** » Sat Aug 10, 2013 3:11 pm

Steve thanks for you help. would I be able to change out the pressure line with out having to pull the clutch pack out?

Tigerhaze · Post by **Tigerhaze** » Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:51 am

Sabaro wrote:I've been doing some research on steering clutches and I'm a little confused between disk and lining. Are there choices (fiber/metal)? Anny thought would be awesome.

Thanks Gerald

Gerald, read the second link in this thread about fiber versus metallic discs.

http://www.jdcrawlers.com/messageboard/ ... t=metallic

pdmech08 · Post by **pdmech08** » Mon Aug 12, 2013 3:11 pm

Yes you can replace line without removing clutch assy. FYI......You shouldn't have to worry about fibers vs metallic. Your machine should only have metallic discs since they run in oil. Fibers are not designed for oil.

Sabaro · Post by **Sabaro** » Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:28 pm

Thanks guys. Well it looks like its time to study service manual and get the tools out. I wish that JD made the steering housing with better access, I've got to pull battery box, hydraulic tank and fuel tank just to get cover off. It's just a small price to pay to keep this old iron around. I've just got to convince my dad to not get rid of the old girl. On a different note how do you post pictures on this message board? I would like to post pictures of the process.
Thanks Gerald

jtrichard · Post by **jtrichard** » Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:29 pm

http://www.jdcrawlers.com/messageboard/ ... php?t=3690 try this

JDcrawlers Messageboard