Starting issues

General help and support for your Lindeman through 2010 John Deere crawler
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foxd
440 crawler
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Starting issues

Post by foxd » Sun Aug 11, 2013 1:30 pm

I seem to be having intermittent starting issues on my 430. Sometimes it cranks over and starts like a champ, then all of the sudden it seems like the starter does not have the umph it needs to roll the engine over at all. Earlier today I went to start it for the first time in a month or so. It cranked over great, but did not fire. I realized that it might not have any gas, and I was right. Poured 2 gallons of gas in and attempted to start it again and now it will not roll over at all. It has a new battery, new wiring, new starter & ground cables. I believe that I have good clean connections on both cables. The engine has been bored .090 over and has less than 10 hours on it since rebuild. Does it sound like a weak starter? Or does someone have any other ideas. Thanks Dave
'39 B, '48 B, '49 A, '50 B, '54 40U, '55 40U, '59 430U, '60 430C

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DukeofDeere
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Post by DukeofDeere » Sun Aug 11, 2013 1:59 pm

Pull your spark plugs and crank it over.

Check your air breather for over fill of oil or water contamination.

May need to spray some lubricant WD-40 or another to lube the cylinders.

Duke

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jtrichard
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Post by jtrichard » Sun Aug 11, 2013 2:13 pm

if only ten hrs. i would try turning by hand and see how that feels make sure you don't have any internal problems then start at the battery and go from there check every thing again
2010 with 622 dozer with mod. 35 ripper and a 2010 with 622 dozer bought in 1969 and a 2010 loader with drott and mod. 36 ripper

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DukeofDeere
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Post by DukeofDeere » Sun Aug 11, 2013 3:52 pm

Could be as simple as a weak battery.
Doesn't take long to draw a 6v down.

Duke

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Lavoy
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Post by Lavoy » Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:39 pm

Ground or connection issues, defective battery cables, too small of cables, bad starter, too small of battery are all possibilities. Check your timing just in case.
Lavoy
Parts and restoration for antique and late model John Deere crawlers.
Owner and moderator www.jdcrawlers.com

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gregjo1948
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starting issues

Post by gregjo1948 » Tue Aug 13, 2013 5:53 am

If it's not rolling over at all, sounds like starter solenoid problem. If you try to hold the starter engaged, does anything get hot or start smoking? gregjo1948
JD 350B diesel 6way blade, Case 580B Loader/backhoe, Farmall 504 high crop w/ flail boom mower, International 404 , International 284 diesel w/belly mower, 1972 Ford F600 dump truck, Galion 3-5 roller, Allis Chalmers D17, 1620 Ford

foxd
440 crawler
440 crawler
Posts: 121
Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 6:18 am
Location: Mt. Pleasant, IA

Post by foxd » Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:16 am

The stud on the starter where the battery cable connects gets pretty warm when I attempt to start. Thanks!
'39 B, '48 B, '49 A, '50 B, '54 40U, '55 40U, '59 430U, '60 430C

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gregjo1948
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starting issues

Post by gregjo1948 » Tue Aug 13, 2013 10:44 am

If your battery is charged, cables and connections are good, I think I would bench test the starter. Just because it's "new or rebuilt" doesn't mean that it's not defective. gregjo1948
JD 350B diesel 6way blade, Case 580B Loader/backhoe, Farmall 504 high crop w/ flail boom mower, International 404 , International 284 diesel w/belly mower, 1972 Ford F600 dump truck, Galion 3-5 roller, Allis Chalmers D17, 1620 Ford

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Lavoy
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Post by Lavoy » Tue Aug 13, 2013 2:19 pm

I agree, I had a fresh rebuild do what you are describing, and there was an internal short.
Lavoy
Parts and restoration for antique and late model John Deere crawlers.
Owner and moderator www.jdcrawlers.com

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Gil
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Post by Gil » Tue Aug 13, 2013 4:29 pm

As gregio said, it could be the solenoid. The little pyramid shaped box on top of the starter has the main battery cable attached to it and the pull rod from the starter knob. You can take the pyramid cap off by removing the two small bolts with a stubby flat blade screw driver (or just remove the starter to work on it - easier).

The electrical starting contact is made by two plates of copper metal being pulled together when the starter rod is pulled. You have got to love the simplicity of 1960's. Take a file and aggressively smooth out any pitted spots. Follow the same contour and verify a good contact by pulling the lever and seeing how the metal plates align. This is something you should do about every 5 years or so anyway.

This may not be your problem, but if it is, it will exhibit symptoms just like you are experiencing. Also I would follow Duke’s advice and remove the spark plugs until you get the engine turning properly. Gil
JD440-ICD loader; JD440-IC bulldozer; JD440-ICD backhoe; JD440-I backhoe; JD440-I tractor; + five recumbent JD440-ICs

foxd
440 crawler
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Post by foxd » Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:03 pm

Thanks for all the replies. I have the starter off now and will give it a good checkup, as well as checking the battery, even though it is new. Will let you know what I find out.
'39 B, '48 B, '49 A, '50 B, '54 40U, '55 40U, '59 430U, '60 430C

foxd
440 crawler
440 crawler
Posts: 121
Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 6:18 am
Location: Mt. Pleasant, IA

Post by foxd » Sun Sep 01, 2013 7:08 am

Starter was the issue. Had the starter rebuilt and life is good.
Dave
'39 B, '48 B, '49 A, '50 B, '54 40U, '55 40U, '59 430U, '60 430C

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