Average daily operating cost of 40c

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Timberwolf13
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Average daily operating cost of 40c

Post by Timberwolf13 » Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:57 pm

So I am the owner and main operator of a small scale logging company. I bought a 53 model 40c, gas, to use daily at work. I'm just trying to get an estimate on what the cost of running this machine will be. I realize that there are a lot of variables that bear on this figure but just in a ballpark, what am I looking at? I plan to use it to clear small roads as well as winch and skid logs. Work days for us range from 8-10 hrs a day. The largest tract we work is about 100acres but the avg is 30-50acre. Any ideas?
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Lavoy
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Post by Lavoy » Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:01 am

Need a little more info maybe. If you truly have a 53, then it is a 3 roller. Undercarriage for 3 roller crawler is much more expensive and hard to get. Finals are much lighter duty than 4 or 5 roller, so that can be a factor too. If using a dozer steady on a 3 roller for clearing roads, you are going to break some stuff faster than on later crawler, and the job will likely take longer too. On the whole, I would not take a 3 roller into the woods to use for an income generating crawler.
3 roller bottom rollers MUST be greased LIBERALLY every 8 hours, 4 roller or later every 150 hours, and only what is needed.
Gas I would guess a gallon or two an hour, $30 for engine oil and filter every 100 hours or so. $50-$80 once or twice a year for trans, finals and hyd oil.
Rebush cost on rails, use $1500 for 1500 hours or so, so dollar an hour there.
If you are going to work a crawler you just bought for a living, it would have a complete tune-up, both steering clutches, and both final drives rebuilt before I ever took it to the job site. Also would do a complete electrical system rebuild. Depending on condition and what you find broken inside, $3000 and up there not including labor.
Probably other things I have forgotten, but someone else will correct me.
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whiteclipse16
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Post by whiteclipse16 » Fri Nov 22, 2013 1:23 pm

I foresee a 53 model 40C for sale and a person in want of a 350 in the very near future.

Cost might be slightly less than a JD350 or something, but I think you'd loose that in the extra time it'll take with the 40C. JMO
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Timberwolf13
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Greatly appreciated.

Post by Timberwolf13 » Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:41 pm

Honest opinions and great info. Just what I was looking for. Heres where I'm at....I was able to get the 40c with a partial trade on an atv that we used getting around on site. It runs great and only real problems are it was a lil stiff steering from where it sat so long in the previous owners garage. Figure some run time or possibly just an adjustment should have it smoothed out. And then I've got to get that winch from Lavoy. Besides the small investment cost my reason for going for this size range was operating weight. I have a 2500HD and a dual axle 7500lb trailer to haul equip. My log truck is an old c50 flatbed, so it could easily haul around 9 tons but I don't have a trailer big enough for it. So my idea was to go smaller to use what I've got already instead of bigger and have to buy a trailer as well. I guess like all problems, $$ was the deciding factor in the end.
So I guess my new question is if I was able to get a 55 parts crawler for cheap with good undercarriage etc. Can the 4 or 5 rollers be converted over onto the 53? Would that make much of a difference? Or would it just be cheaper and quicker to find a trailer and larger crawler after selling the 53? I've got minimum invest in it right now due to partial trade and not having used it much or had to work on it any
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Timberwolf13
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Post by Timberwolf13 » Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:12 pm

I should also mention that we are a small scale, Eco-friendly logging company. We do select thinning and forest management. We do not clear cut or really completely clear anything. Roads will only be 6-8' wide. We only need access. There won't be any big trucks or forwarding on these trails. They are just for skidding. My walden 5000 4wd will be the only other equipment using these roads. Not looking to make a fortune or anything. As long as I can keep the bills paid and put a lil bit in pocket than I'm good to go.
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jtrichard
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Post by jtrichard » Fri Nov 22, 2013 8:31 pm

i would use the "53" gently and keep your eyes out for a 350 and a trailer or put a third axle under the trailer you have ...your friend has a 350 so you know what kinda damage they do i would say its not much more than the 40 does
2010 with 622 dozer with mod. 35 ripper and a 2010 with 622 dozer bought in 1969 and a 2010 loader with drott and mod. 36 ripper

Timberwolf13
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Post by Timberwolf13 » Fri Nov 22, 2013 9:17 pm

That was the plan I was hoping to go with pretty much exactly. I never planned to use the 40 for very long. 6 mths to a yr at most. Just long enough to get some wood to the mill and find a good deal on a 350 rig. Might even be able to work something out with my buddy and his 350 but that's all in the future. So you think the 40 would be ok for a while? I was starting to get the feeling from all the info so far that it wasn't.
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Running a 40

Post by JWB Contracting » Fri Nov 22, 2013 11:14 pm

I personally would stay away from putting a 40 to work unless a complete mechanical was done on it. They were a good machine back in the day.

A decent 350 with a factory deere winch will do about 5 times the amount of work in a day vs a 40 and cost a lot less to run.

I pull 350 crawlers (loaders and dozers) behind gas and diesel Chevy 2500's without any issue on an ex utility company tandem axle trailer with 16.5 rubber ($2,000 cost and it had almost new rubber in it).

I would sell the 40 immediately and get yourself into a 350. Outside mount Dozer 350's in good shape aren't a lot of money and hold up well.

Just my opinion. Sometimes you have to use what you got, nothing wrong with that. However if you do put the 40 to work, take it easy in it and I would like to see some pictures of it in action.
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Lavoy
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Post by Lavoy » Sat Nov 23, 2013 12:34 am

If you are not going to use it with the blade for the most part, and you are religious about greasing the undercarriage, you will be fine skidding with it. Blade use will also depend on which blade you have, I should have asked that first. A wheeled arch would help cut down on drag too.
Realistically, I would look for a 420 if you don't want to go to a 350. Same size as a 40, but more power.
It is not that a 3 roller crawler was not meant to work, they definitely were, some parts just will not stand up as well long term as a 4 or 5 roller would. With common sense and good maintenance practices along with preventative maintenance/repairs, you will be good for a long time. The greatest part about a 3 roller is they are the nicest steering, shortest turning crawler you will get in tight situations like you might be in.
Yes, a 4 roller undercarriage will bolt right on, no issues, but you will need the front idler assemblies with it, and longer track chains, or links to add.
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Timberwolf13
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Post by Timberwolf13 » Sat Nov 23, 2013 1:40 am

Thanks for all the help folks.
My 40 is pretty much bone stock. The blade isn't but is nearly identical to the stock 4way S style. I kinda figured I would just use the blade on long enough to get the roads in and then take it off like you said to winch and skid. Also an option I was thinking of is, if I can get the roads cut good enough with it, then I could use my 4wd articulated loader to skid em after they're winched into place. It's faster and has plenty of pwr to pull with. In fact we use it daily now. But the problem is, even with a toothed bucket, it doesn't really work as land mover. Just doesn't seem to have enough down force. But it does move loose stuff like a boss so it could easily help out on the clearing, just not breaking fresh ground. Also forgot to mention, I use a custom made skidder plate that uses leverage to lift the log butts off the ground when you pull. Makes it a lot smoother and easier to pull more and just slides right over obstacles.
Time spent working on trucks all my life has made me a stickler for maintenance and p.m.I. So no prob there. I just need the lil guy to make it for a lil while to get some $ flowing. At first opportunity I'm gonna either find a more suitable replacement or find a 4 roll setup. There's a few diff ones near me for the right price. As of right now theres a 1010(but it needs steering clutches), then I found a 440 close recently as well. Seems like I'll have options but as of now, time isnt on my side.
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Post by Lavoy » Sat Nov 23, 2013 9:15 am

Sounds like you have it pretty well figured out to me.
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Paul Buhler
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Post by Paul Buhler » Sat Nov 23, 2013 9:32 am

Hi: I'd second Jason's suggestions. You have to decide do you want to spend your time and energy logging, or fixing things. A 350 6way blade and winch with integral arch served me well when I got started. I expanded by buying a cheap 440 JD skidder that "needed work". I seemed to spend too much time wrenching and going for parts, rather than hauling in wood. Eventually, I upgraded to newer equipment, and while I still had to make repairs, they were fewer meaning more focus on the logging. (In hindsight, I think I would have been better off buying a skidder in better shape for more money and spending more time in the woods - the choice became do I pay interest on a loan or for repairs?

I now have a 420 with a winch as a hobby machine (I've been upgrading it as time and money allow) and it works well as a logging tractor doing similar work to what you described, but I know that it is old all over, and it's a matter of time before something lets go and I'll have a significant repair to make. This would take me off task, cost me time and money, and hurts more so if I'm trying to meet some deadline.

Good luck with whatever you decide. A suggestion is that if you do go with the 40, you "pay" it weekly for the work it does so that you have funds available for the inevitable repairs it will need. Happy Holidays. Paul
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Stan Disbrow
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Post by Stan Disbrow » Sat Nov 23, 2013 10:29 am

Hi,

One thing about my 420 with the inside blade in the woods is it made the 350 with the outside blade seem huge!

But, if I were using one a lot, I would much prefer the 350 I had over the 420.

Stan
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Timberwolf13
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Post by Timberwolf13 » Sat Nov 23, 2013 2:00 pm

Lavoy wrote:Sounds like you have it pretty well figured out to me.
Lavoy
I appreciate the vote of confidence brotha. I wish had so much myself. I'm still pretty wary of the whole idea but it just seems like for the immediate time being, it's my only choice.
Thanks for all the input folks. Looks like I'll be finding a new rig but that's gonna be a while still. It's obvious my lil 40 gonna have to be upgraded in the near future. But for now I'm gonna put him to work and try and take er easy on him. Being new to crawlers in general, so long as I don't really mess something up, seems like the learning experience and maintenance will be a good break in for me to get used to. At least this way I don't have much to lose.
Soon as I get the lil guy in the woods I'll take some pics to show. Right now I've got him in the shop for a tune up and p.m.I. I have to say so far so good. Seems to be in pretty good shape.
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40c logging

Post by boler76 » Sat Nov 23, 2013 5:34 pm

I use my '53 40c every winter for last 20 yrs to winch out maple logs, I have a homebuilt wheeled logging arch and a pto driven winch, Front blade, I have had very little problems and use cornhead grease in rollers, Keeping in touch with what is going on with your machine will keep it running well for a long time You should have lots of good use from it Just my observations

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