JD 450B helicoil stripped side frame to clutch housing holes

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crawler123
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JD 450B helicoil stripped side frame to clutch housing holes

Post by crawler123 » Mon Jun 09, 2014 11:47 am

Has anyone tried to helicoil stripped out side frame to clutch housing holes with the housing still in the tractor ? 3/4"x10 threads.
I'm not sure what material the clutch housing is made of.
Cast iron or cast steel ?? real close to the flywheel.
Pretty tight in there. Will I have to take off the dozer frame to get at it ?
This is an inside the track dozer frame.

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crawler123
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Post by crawler123 » Wed Jun 11, 2014 8:34 am

I guess I asked the wrong question

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Post by Labparamour » Wed Jun 11, 2014 5:38 pm

Not many folks jumping on this one, huh?
I had to remove a broken frame-to-bell housing bolt and did it while everything together. There's not a lot of room and, the smaller helicoils I've used require going oversize…I'm not sure the current hole in the frame would permit that. And then there's getting metal cuttings in the bell housing.
Why does it seem everything these machines require is burried deep i side?!
Good luck,
DB

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Post by crawler123 » Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:11 am

Hi Labparamour
Thanks for the reply.
I know, most people think it should be disassembled to do this.
They are probably correct but that isn't going to be possible for me right now.
If I get the spacer out, there will be more room. Unfortunately the stripped threads are on the hole that goes through the hole in the dozer frame.
So it will require making drill and tap extensions.

Labparamour
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Post by Labparamour » Fri Jun 13, 2014 8:04 am

Yeah, I had to do that to remove my broken bolt. Used left-hand drill bits as suggested on this site and was lucky...the drill spun out the broken bolt!
Your brake job was excellent and well documented: a very useful tutorial I reviewed a couple times while doing my clutch/brakes.
I'm sure you'll find a resourceful way to make this repair.

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MarkW
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Post by MarkW » Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:35 am

I do not know if this will work at all for you, but just so you know a 3/4" bolt is 19.05mm. They make 20mm and 22mm metric bolts with a 2.5mm pitch, which is darn near 10 TPI. You might be able to run a M20X2.5 tap in there right now and just use metric bolts, if everything would work out and you'd consider using metric bolts.

Keep in mind I haven't seen a 450 dozer, but if you can get to it this would be a simpler approach and be able to do away with the added component of a helicoil.

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Post by crawler123 » Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:18 pm

Hi Mark thanks for the reply. I never thought of that one.
If I tried your suggestion and for some reason it didn't work, would there still be enough meat there to do the 3/4 10 helicoil ?
Can I find those 20mm bolts in grade 8 or better?
If you don't know already the bolts used in these are 7/8 bolts with the end machined smaller and cut to 3/4 10 threads.
Why on earth JD did that I don't know. I would have thought that the 7/8 bolt would have been much stronger.
Plus of course these are specialty bolts only available from JD. $50 or more each !! OUCH
I'm thinking of have a local machinist make the bolts anyway so I might ask him about using the metric thread.
Thanks
Dennis

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Post by jtrichard » Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:09 pm

Dennis can you put up some pics of what you are up against? sounds like you might just be-able to just go to 7/8 bolts
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Post by Labparamour » Wed Jun 18, 2014 7:29 am

This thread (no pun intended) has me wondering if I need to make some changes.
I just went with 3/4 bolts and now wonder if the difference would be enough to be a problem due to movement/flex.
Too bad thread pitch isn't the same- my chart shows 3/4 as 10 tpi and 7/8 @ 9 tpi- you could just run a tap for the 7/8.
So, I'm wondering if a 7/8 grade 8 could be purchased long and turned and threaded for 3/4-10 or making a bushing from DOM and stick with a 3/4" bolt (there is a 1" DOM with 0.760 ID...turn the OD down?)
I need to check the Deere site- sometimes I've found specs/dimensions for parts.
Regarding clearance- I have a loader frame and was able to collapse the track adjuster and get enough sag in the track for the upper bolt.

DB

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Post by DrLoch » Fri Jun 20, 2014 1:23 pm

There was a thread (no pun intended) dealing with stripped bolt issues. I wouldn't even consider using a helicoil. Try looking at a timesert http://www.timesert.com/html/faq.html. Depending on the what the hole looks like you may be able to use the same size bolt.
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crawler123
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Post by crawler123 » Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:55 am

First two pics are of the side frame hole with stripped threads. As you can see access is through a hole in the dozer frame. What fun ;-)

Image[/img]

Image[/img]

This is a pic of the side frame hole with broken off bolt.

Image[/img]

Another of the one with stripped threads.

Image[/img]

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crawler123
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Post by crawler123 » Sat Jun 28, 2014 11:51 am

So what do you think guys ? Would the M20 x 2.5 bolt idea be worth trying ?
Or wouldn't there be enough meat left in there.
The Deere bolt that should be in there is kind of a shoulder bolt with the shoulder diameter of 0.816" and the thread at the end a 3/4 x 10 tpi.
I just stuck a 3/4x10 bolt into the hole and it's pretty lose. Those threads are pretty much gone.
I checked the holes in the spacers. Somewhere around 0.778" and I don't know the diameter of a M20 x 2.5 bolt. I calculate 20mm to be 0.7874" so it's pretty close. Might have to open up the spacer holes a bit.
Any Ideas ?

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pop pop
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Post by pop pop » Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:32 pm

i think the metric bolt idea may be a good, easy fix , and maybe put a short sleeve on it to simulate a shouldered bolt to take up any extra space.
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crawler123
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Post by crawler123 » Sun Jun 29, 2014 4:06 pm

I Was just discussing this bolt problem with another JD crawlers member. He showed me that in later builds of 450 larger bolts were used in the side frame to clutch housing. I checked the JD online parts catalog and indeed there are 7/8" bolts used here.
So I think I will try to drill and tap for the 7/8" bolts. That way I won't have to buy or have made special (very expensive) shoulder bolts.
Sure would like to hear from someone else that has gone this route.
Thanks
Dennis

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DrLoch
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Post by DrLoch » Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:31 am

Sounds like a easier solution, if there is anything easy about working on or fixing these things.
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