JD 450 Crawler Loader ?

[underdog]

My first post and i put it in the wrong section.
Sorry my bad. This is the correct one.

Ok i am new here.

I went and traded a truck for a JD crawler loader.
I know nothing about these. I am a case backhoe man.
But needed a track loader and this was the best i could do.
Need help
First i read alot then looked up your vin# lists and nothing lines up.
I looked on the web and found a 1967 model that has the same operator controls.
Throttle at right of gauges
lever steer
Left clutch peddle -- right brake peddle
Shifter below your knees L-H-N-R
Wobble stick loader control at right hand

My problems.
> What was it? what year? There are two serial and type plates.
one on dash = serial - 00419 / Type - 7450
one on seat base = Serial 059188T / Type - T5E3M

> some control handle at left hand?? beats me what it does or how to use it. It is very difficult to work, but seemed to increase ground speed.

I keep reading about dry steering clutches and moisture problems.
have seen some pics of parts. Looks like two discs and a pressure plate.
The left one is rusted up.
pulled the inspction plates under seat and there is alot of water in there.

>If it is a dry setup why all the drain and fill plugs 4 inside bottom - drain
@ 2 fill plugs outside upper.

Could a person fill with diesel and try to get the clutch working?
Are there any shade tree ways to get a steering clutch working?
Or am i going to have to man up and tear down?

It has alot of missing and broken bolts. Where do you find them?

Anyway Hello from TN and sorry for my starting level

[jdemaris]

450 only has one foot brake pedal - on the right. Pedal on the left if the engine clutch. Steering brakes are built into the hand-lever controls.
Handle on the left if for the four-speed gear (range-change) transmission. Handle on the floor is for the hydraulic powershift transmission - with high, low, and reverse. HL-R can be shifted on the go. The four speed range trans cannnot and - you have to push the clutch pedal all the way down to shift it. Half way down disengages the HL-R but is not necessary for shifting.

If the HL-R is on the floor, it's an old machine - probably a 450A.

[underdog]

Ok i got the ignition switch replaced yesterday a moved it around abit.
Yes the left lever is a gated shifter. Man that thing is tough to move.
Is it normal for it to be so hard to move the shifter.

And the one between your knees is a power shift?
Well thats good to know.

I orderd an operator manual for it.
Am looking at a service and parts manual.
Would it really make a difference if i ended up with a 450B manual?

After more study i find that the four side bols go into bell housing?
all are broke and or missing. They claim you have to pull the motor and trans to repair and inspect for damage.
What happens if you just leave it as is and work it till it dies?
I read one post that says it is structural.

Anyway. Thanks for the help so far.

[underdog]

Wow these things are built wierd and fragile.
Took it out today to see what i got.
Started noticing alot of flex.
The left side frame is broke in two just ahead of the finals, That and those 4 bolts that were supposed to hold the whole thing together have left it pretty well crippled.
So now what
Sell it for parts?
Use it until it finishes detroying itself?
Trade it in on a real machine?
Spend several thousand dollars trying to put it back together?

[jdemaris]

Wow these things are built wierd and fragile.

450 crawlers aren't fragile, by any means. I've seen many a Case. AC. and Cat crawler just as beat up. You've got a machine over 40 years old, and obviously beat to death and not maintained. So, now it's up to you.
Junk it, fix it, or park it as an ornament - but don't blame the mess on the poor crawler or Deere Co. There ARE plenty of badly designed crawlers around, but the 450 isn't one of them.

[underdog]

jdemaris
Sorry to offend. I will agree owner and operator are where it ends up.
But studying information on this machine and looking it over.
Those four bolts that come in from the sides to the driveline should not be structural. But apparently they are and after they let go the owners/operators continued on till it broke the frame.
And if i ignore the problem most likely it will tear itself apart.
As my first post indicated i am a "Case Backhoe man" I got used to the idea of a big solid structure with the driveline and attachments hanging from it.
The frame on this JD is somthing very different indeed.

pdmech08
Thank you very much. You have a very nice web site.
Wish you where closer.
If i decide to rebuild you will be at the top of my list.

I am going to pull the belly pan and the floor boards to see what else may be lurking. Any ideas what to look for in particular?

[jdemaris]

Those four bolts that come in from the sides to the driveline should not be structural.

As my first post indicated i am a "Case Backhoe man" I got used to the idea of a big solid structure with the driveline and attachments hanging from it.

The bolts, in-themselves, are not responsible for overall structural integrity. Everything taken togeher is. Sounds to me like you've got a machine that . . . for many years got used, as it broke, piece by piece and damage became exponential after sheer neglect. No way does a Case handle such abuse any better - and if you believe differently, I've got several Case 530 CKs and 580 CKs sitting up in field busted to pieces.
With early crawlers, Case machines were basically tinkertoys -and shared driveline parts with Oliver Cletracs, Terratracs, etc.

On the subject of J.I. Case, if you recall, they were the first major equipment company to announce they would build a machine that did NOT rely on - as you put it - "big solid structure with the driveline and attachments hanging from it." That's when they took credit for the first USA tractor/backhoe designed as a comercial backhoe/loader, and not just a tractor with a hoe attached to it. That was 1957.

Obviously, I disgree with you. 450 Deere is a rock-solid machine that does NOT rely on a few bolts to hold it together. But, like anything, it has a breaking point. Let enough of them fall out, get loose, etc. let side frames crack, perhaps have a engine-to trans -transaxle connecting not get tightened correctly, and yeah, it falls apart after awhile. Now, the Deere 350 is a different story and is much weaker. But, we're talking 450s here.

[underdog]

Thank you for defending this machine.
You may have swayed me towards saving it.
Like i posted, I am going to inspect further -- Anything in particular to look for? knowing what we know so far.
I am trying to get repair manuals for it.
Are there any big differences between the 450A and 450B
besides the the later B models going to wet steering clutches.

Thank you
James

[jdemaris]

Are there any big differences between the 450A and 450B
besides the the later B models going to wet steering clutches.

Thank you
James

The C series got the wet clutches, not the Bs. As to changes, no substantial changes other then horsepower. 450 started out with a 202 naturally aspirated engine, and from there engine got bigger overtime with a turbo added in mid-range Bs. If you operate a late trubo B or a C - it is night-and-day difference in power - as compared to an early 450.

[underdog]

Ok i posted some pictures up.
What do you think of the frame break?
And do you think this is about 1967 450
http://www.jdcrawlers.com/messageboard/ ... 5215#15215

[jupiter]

I have repair manual for 450A in english and french.

[Spope1970]

Hello

[Spope1970]

I have repair manual for 450A in english and french.

know this is a super old post but I just picked up what I believe to be a 450a. Would you by chance still have that manual?

Thanks
Steve

[Jim B]

Welcome to the Boards.

Is the serial number tag still on your crawler? Is it bare, dozer, or loader? I ask as the US parts catalog does not list a 450A so you may be dealing with a foreign built machine, if the serial number starts 450A. Also, the serial number tag should give the build factory. A space between the 450 and the A would be the A is build info. If you post the serial number, we might be able to decode it and help make sure you get the right manual.

[Lavoy]

He does have a European built machine. Always wondered why they changed the seating so much, but it almost make more sense than the US version if it has a hoe on it.
Lavoy