Crawler search... update

General help and support for your Lindeman through 2010 John Deere crawler
Jason Z in MO
430 crawler
430 crawler
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Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:00 pm
Location: Warrenton, MO

Crawler search... update

Post by Jason Z in MO » Thu Feb 12, 2009 6:03 pm

I'm still searching for a crawler and found a 1010 gas loader with reverser and 50 backhoe. Strong engine, good UC but transmission has a bad gear. Right side final drive casting was broken and welded. See pic.

At the same time I found a 1010 diesel Dozer. 6 way hydro blade, no reverse but has a 3point without the toplink. UC measures 100% worn. Last spring the engine suddenly lost power and the owner was able to limp it back using the primer. Hasn't ran since. He confirmed there was some fuel flow but thats about it.

They are both late machines in the 49xxx range and was thinking of parting out the dozer to make a good crawler loader with backhoe.

The diesel engine problem sounds like a fuel delivery or timing issue. Any know problems with these. Would be nice to have a good running diesel engine.

Still open to finding a 350 but nothing in my area yet.


Image
1010D D 6-way hydro blade w/ 3point, 1010D C/L, 350c C/L, JD B, JD 50, JD 520, JD 720LP, JD 4020, JD 4230

Jason Z in MO
430 crawler
430 crawler
Posts: 58
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:00 pm
Location: Warrenton, MO

Post by Jason Z in MO » Mon Feb 16, 2009 3:03 pm

well my Crawler Crawl is over... at least for a few days.

Drove 4 hours to look at the loader tractor and it had serveral issues which would require a lot of work. In defense of the owner, he used it and it worked great for him until the transmission failed but it served its purpose. Instead of heading home we took a 2 hour detoured to look at the 1010 dozer with factory 3-point... no toplink :( Long story short, I bought it.

It's a diesel and has been sitting for about 10 months when the engine lost power, was limped a few yards using the primer, died and hasn't been moved since yesterday. I worked on it last night and the injection pump isn't pumping. Removed the timing window and found black plastic hanging around. I think Jdemaris calls them mouse turds. This is a B model pump, checked before I bought it... The tractor is a late SN 48941 with a DBGVC429-2DH pump installed. The parts book says it should be a 1DH. 2DH isn't listed for the 1010. What gives?

It didn't have a battery so the guy hooked one up so we could crank it over. He connected to neg to ground. I checked the book and it's clearly a positive ground. He said he that's how he always connected it.... It still has the generator and VR. How can I tell if it should be positive or neg ground?

The main wiring harness is pretty bad and I don't find any voltage to the glowplugs and I need to check their resistance as well. Looking for a good harness and key switch.
1010D D 6-way hydro blade w/ 3point, 1010D C/L, 350c C/L, JD B, JD 50, JD 520, JD 720LP, JD 4020, JD 4230

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JD440ICD2006
350 crawler
350 crawler
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Location: South Carolina

Post by JD440ICD2006 » Mon Feb 16, 2009 3:28 pm

On many 6, 8, and 12 volt generator/VR systems, the owner chooses whether it is pos or neg ground. The way you do this is simple. Hook up the cables the way that you like best, then briefly touch a wire on the GEN and FIELD contact. You should see a spark. Once you have done that, you have polorized the system to charge the way you have it wired.

It is said that engineers way back when thought that a positive ground system did not cause as much corrosion as the negative ground system.

Personally, I believe that there can be just as much "electron poop" wired either way.
1959 JD 440ICD w/64 Power Angle Tilt Blade
1959 JD 440ICD w/63 Manual Angle Blade
1959 JD 440IC w/602 Manual Angle Blade
1959 JD 730D W SE (many options)
1950 JD M S w/M-20 Mower
1952 JD M W
1955 FORD 640 (burns the most fuel)

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Lavoy
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Post by Lavoy » Mon Feb 16, 2009 4:22 pm

The generator will polarize either way, but the voltage regulator may not like it. I think I can get harnesses for the diesel, I have glow plugs on hand, new switch I am out of, but easy to get more.
Lavoy

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JD440ICD2006
350 crawler
350 crawler
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Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 3:57 pm
Location: South Carolina

Post by JD440ICD2006 » Mon Feb 16, 2009 4:35 pm

Lavoy,


Good catch! I forgot that some VR's will take either connection, and some are only one way. Typically it is stamped on the VR somewhere.


Chuck W.
1959 JD 440ICD w/64 Power Angle Tilt Blade
1959 JD 440ICD w/63 Manual Angle Blade
1959 JD 440IC w/602 Manual Angle Blade
1959 JD 730D W SE (many options)
1950 JD M S w/M-20 Mower
1952 JD M W
1955 FORD 640 (burns the most fuel)

Jason Z in MO
430 crawler
430 crawler
Posts: 58
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:00 pm
Location: Warrenton, MO

Post by Jason Z in MO » Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:39 pm

Checked the glow plugs and found about 1 ohm at each except #4 was 1.6 ohms. I haven't load tested them yet and I don't see how they could have worked the way the electrics are cobbled together.

The VR is mounted on the under side of the dash, up-side-down and it doesn't have a cover. The contacts look pretty bad. I didn't remove it to find out if the base is marked POS or NEG ground. The gen probably needs to be rebuilt based on it's condition. I will pull it out during daylight hours.

The parts list is growing but I want to focus on the injection pump issue and get the engine is running.

Can I used the DBGVC429-2DH or should I find an original DBGVC429-1DH? For rebuilds and injector testing etc. any recommendations?
1010D D 6-way hydro blade w/ 3point, 1010D C/L, 350c C/L, JD B, JD 50, JD 520, JD 720LP, JD 4020, JD 4230

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Tigerhaze
350 crawler
350 crawler
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Location: West-Central MO

Post by Tigerhaze » Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:59 am

Hi Jason-

With reagrds to glow plug testing, you will want to find a post I made and Jdemaris responded to about it. He had a lot of good tips- one of which is that static resistance testing doesn't tell you a whole lot about the glow plugs. I would think his advice would apply to the 1010 diesels as well as the 2010 diesels.

Jdemaris is also the person to talk to about the injector pumps. He has a lot of good posts on here about testing, etc. that you should read.

Out of curiousity, where did you find the dozer?
(1) JD Straight 450 crawler dozer with manual outside blade; (2) JD 2010 diesel crawler loaders; (1) JD 2010 diesel dozer with hydraulic 6-way blade; (2) Model 50 backhoe attachments, misc. other construction equipment

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JD430C
1010 crawler
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Post by JD430C » Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:02 pm

hi jason, did some research today, according to jdparts.com, both DBGVC429-1DH and DBGVC429-2DH were used after SN 31000. before SN 31000 they used a DBGVC 429-1J.


andrew
jds- 450B, 450C, 550, 4020, 3140 MFWD, 5200 MFWD

Jason Z in MO
430 crawler
430 crawler
Posts: 58
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:00 pm
Location: Warrenton, MO

Post by Jason Z in MO » Tue Feb 17, 2009 2:06 pm

Andrew,

Thanks for figuring this out! The reason I'm confused is the parts book I got with the tractor (PC-727) the DBGVC429-1J is used from 10001-17360, DBGVC429-3A = 17361-31000, DBGVC429-1DH = 31000-xxxxx. Sounds like the 2DH is a replacement for the 1DH and my book maybe old information.

Per the Baier Tractor Parts web site the 2DH is used in the 2010. They sell replacement pumps. I can actually get either the 2DH or the 1DH for $748. Does either have an advantage over the other? I assume I can get a rebuild completed for quite a bit less but I haven't priced it yet.

http://www.spencerdiesel.com/dieselware ... 8&DLR=6210

So one thing which just hit me, could the 2010 engine bolt into a 1010 chassis? Perhaps someone replace the engine which is why I have the 2DH pump.
1010D D 6-way hydro blade w/ 3point, 1010D C/L, 350c C/L, JD B, JD 50, JD 520, JD 720LP, JD 4020, JD 4230

Jason Z in MO
430 crawler
430 crawler
Posts: 58
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:00 pm
Location: Warrenton, MO

Post by Jason Z in MO » Tue Feb 17, 2009 2:43 pm

Baier just called me back. They called Spencer Diesel who actually does the rebuilds and he was told installing the 2DH on a 1010 would give 10-12 more HP. A lot can happen in 45 years! Not sure if I about juicing up an old tractor since I don't know the history. Could break stuff!

Tigerhaze, I will do some searches for the glowplug testing. Guess I can give them about 10 seconds of power and see if their temperature increases. I love my infered thermometer! I will also respond to your other post and give you the details of the tractor. Maybe a picture too.

Thanks everyone! Great info here!
1010D D 6-way hydro blade w/ 3point, 1010D C/L, 350c C/L, JD B, JD 50, JD 520, JD 720LP, JD 4020, JD 4230

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Tigerhaze
350 crawler
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Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:13 pm
Location: West-Central MO

Post by Tigerhaze » Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:20 am

Jason-

Here is one of the threads I was thinking about concerning 1010 glow plugs:

http://www.jdcrawlers.com/messageboard/ ... glow+plugs
(1) JD Straight 450 crawler dozer with manual outside blade; (2) JD 2010 diesel crawler loaders; (1) JD 2010 diesel dozer with hydraulic 6-way blade; (2) Model 50 backhoe attachments, misc. other construction equipment

Jason Z in MO
430 crawler
430 crawler
Posts: 58
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:00 pm
Location: Warrenton, MO

Post by Jason Z in MO » Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:44 pm

Tigerhaze,

Thanks for the link. I will load test them by the weekend.

I've learned more about the pump issue. Best I can tell by comparing the parts manual I have for the late model 1010 to the parts manual for the 2010 wheel tractors which I can find online. They used the same block, head, etc. This matches the block I have in the tractor. So far I have not found an easy conclusive way to determine if its a 40hp 1010 or a 50 hp engine from a 2010. Is there any external component, not counting the pump, which would determine which engine I have?

One option suggested is to pull the head and measure the bore... OR can I remove a turbulence chamber and measure the bore?

Thanks Tiger!
1010D D 6-way hydro blade w/ 3point, 1010D C/L, 350c C/L, JD B, JD 50, JD 520, JD 720LP, JD 4020, JD 4230

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Lavoy
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Post by Lavoy » Wed Feb 18, 2009 11:00 pm

You would have to get it back out, but one way to tell without engine disassembly is to CC one bore. Pull a glow plug or injector, set the piston at CDC for that piston. Fill the bore completely full with oil, then by hand turn the engine over to TDC for that piston and meausre the amount of fluid that comes out. If you measure in CC's, convert to CI and multiply by 4 and you will have the displacement of the engine. Spin the engine over with the started and the glow plug or injector out to blow as much oil out as possible. It will smoke for a while, but won't hurt anything.
Lavoy

Jason Z in MO
430 crawler
430 crawler
Posts: 58
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:00 pm
Location: Warrenton, MO

Post by Jason Z in MO » Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:52 am

Lavoy,

Thanks! Good idea. A little math and bingo! There is the displacement.

I do have another question... of course. What is the best way to turn the engine by hand? Can you get a strap wrench around the pump coupling?

The engine timing access hole is pretty small and the air cleaner would have to be removed to use a screwdriver to lever it around. I also notice the bellhousing timing access hole doesn't have the little tin cover. Nor is the casting drilled and tapped for the bolt to hold it in place. Just seemed odd... unless I'm not looking at the right hole?!?!

Been working a lot of hours this week and hope to spend some "quality" time with it this weekend. Just don't tell my wife!
1010D D 6-way hydro blade w/ 3point, 1010D C/L, 350c C/L, JD B, JD 50, JD 520, JD 720LP, JD 4020, JD 4230

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Lavoy
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Post by Lavoy » Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:08 am

I have a real long slip joint pliers that I can grab the crank pulley from the LH side with.
Lavoy

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