Hub Bearing Grease Question for Front Idler on 2010 Crawler
Hub Bearing Grease Question for Front Idler on 2010 Crawler
Good morning-
Well this weekend I went though a little ordeal with the bearing hub on the front idler of my 2010. I had to disconnect the trackframe guide brackets (or whatever they are called) because I had broken off an old bolt that connects it to the hydraulic track adjuster- it sort of derailed my plans to get the track back on this weekend.
Anyhow I will reassemble the brackets this weekend but thought it was a good opportunity to relube the hub bearings. What type of grease should I use- a standard automotive wheel bearing grease or "corn head" grease like used on bottom rollers? If the "corn head" grease, what stores carry that? Does Deere carry it?
Thank you-
Well this weekend I went though a little ordeal with the bearing hub on the front idler of my 2010. I had to disconnect the trackframe guide brackets (or whatever they are called) because I had broken off an old bolt that connects it to the hydraulic track adjuster- it sort of derailed my plans to get the track back on this weekend.
Anyhow I will reassemble the brackets this weekend but thought it was a good opportunity to relube the hub bearings. What type of grease should I use- a standard automotive wheel bearing grease or "corn head" grease like used on bottom rollers? If the "corn head" grease, what stores carry that? Does Deere carry it?
Thank you-
(1) JD Straight 450 crawler dozer with manual outside blade; (2) JD 2010 diesel crawler loaders; (1) JD 2010 diesel dozer with hydraulic 6-way blade; (2) Model 50 backhoe attachments, misc. other construction equipment
- Stan Disbrow
- 350 crawler
- Posts: 2904
- Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:13 pm
- Location: Raleigh, NC
Hi,
I don't know if the 2010 uses the same type of idler(and so the same type of grease) as the 420. On the 420 I use the same lubricant as for the upper idlers and the bottom rollers.
That'd be corn head grease these days. Only source I find it at is the Deere dealer.
Later!
stan
I don't know if the 2010 uses the same type of idler(and so the same type of grease) as the 420. On the 420 I use the same lubricant as for the upper idlers and the bottom rollers.
That'd be corn head grease these days. Only source I find it at is the Deere dealer.
Later!
stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
Thanks Stan- the service mnaul calls for the same lubricant for rollers and idlers (SAE 140 multi-purpose lubricant above 32 degrees and SAE 80 below). I think based on what I have read I will use the "corn head" grease.
One other question if anyone knows- on reassembly of the hydraulic adjuster to the front idler guides, the service manual discusses the use of shims on each side of the adjuster bolts to center the idler. The old adjuster did not have shims. How critical is the shimming, and what can I use to shim? I'm guessing if significantly off-center, it won't help my track slipping issue
One other question if anyone knows- on reassembly of the hydraulic adjuster to the front idler guides, the service manual discusses the use of shims on each side of the adjuster bolts to center the idler. The old adjuster did not have shims. How critical is the shimming, and what can I use to shim? I'm guessing if significantly off-center, it won't help my track slipping issue
(1) JD Straight 450 crawler dozer with manual outside blade; (2) JD 2010 diesel crawler loaders; (1) JD 2010 diesel dozer with hydraulic 6-way blade; (2) Model 50 backhoe attachments, misc. other construction equipment
- Stan Disbrow
- 350 crawler
- Posts: 2904
- Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:13 pm
- Location: Raleigh, NC
Hi,
Yes, Corn Head grease works well. I'm still using stuff in a 5 gallon pail from back in the late 1940's / early 1950's which was meant for such service at the time these things were new.
Unfortunately, I have not found a suitable alternative at any of the area lubrication shops. You know, places that sell specialized lubricants and are usually associated with a tank farm.
It appears that the last lubricant company to market something for this application was Kendall, now long gone. My stuff was made by Socony-Vacuum Oil Co. and they're now known as Mobil, but modern-day Mobil has nothing like the old Gargoyle Number 10 grease.....
One of my best friends dad was VP of R&D for Kendall, then later Quaker State until he retired. He recalls that kind of lubricant, but knows of no outfit still catering to such uses. I've spent many an hour showing him older lubricants I still have kicking around and learning just what is in them so I can figure out something newer to use in place of the older stuff.
Most of the brands you see out there now, which you recognize as old American oil companies, are no longer anything but a brand name. Most are owned by the same holding company and so sell the same things even though their advertising would lead one to think they are different.
That leaves us pretty much with the equipment maker's offerings as they buy enough of whatever they carry to get the stuff made to their specs.
Unfortunately, Deere no longer offers a roller/idler lubricant. They do offer Corn Head grease which is as close a substitute as you are going to find. The stuff is somewhat thicker than what was originally used but is still runny enough to pump itself around inside the idlers and rollers.
What all the outfits sell these days for 140 weight is too runny as it's all really multigrade and a lot closer to 90 weight than 140 weight. At least I can't locate a source of straight-weight 140 or anything that says it's 140 and is actually anywhere near 140's viscosity.
The other problem is the gun one uses. You need a low pressure gun, and those haven't been made for about as long as the lubricants for rollers hasn't been. I have one, but only the one. The thing is that it has a lot of back pressure on the handle and so you can tell when it's time to stop pumping.
I use my low pressure gun with the Gargoyle lubricant as it's not a cartridge style gun. You have to pour the thick stuff in thru a cap. I use a pistol grip style gun with the Corn Head grease cartridges. I use my one finger on the end of the trigger to feel when it's time to stop pumping. However, you have to pay attention or it's easy to go too far and blow out a seal.
I use the old lube every other time I grease things, so my rollers have a mix of old and new in them all the time. This way the old grease will last probably until the end of my life. After which, I guess I don't care any longer what is used!
Later!
Stan
Yes, Corn Head grease works well. I'm still using stuff in a 5 gallon pail from back in the late 1940's / early 1950's which was meant for such service at the time these things were new.
Unfortunately, I have not found a suitable alternative at any of the area lubrication shops. You know, places that sell specialized lubricants and are usually associated with a tank farm.
It appears that the last lubricant company to market something for this application was Kendall, now long gone. My stuff was made by Socony-Vacuum Oil Co. and they're now known as Mobil, but modern-day Mobil has nothing like the old Gargoyle Number 10 grease.....
One of my best friends dad was VP of R&D for Kendall, then later Quaker State until he retired. He recalls that kind of lubricant, but knows of no outfit still catering to such uses. I've spent many an hour showing him older lubricants I still have kicking around and learning just what is in them so I can figure out something newer to use in place of the older stuff.
Most of the brands you see out there now, which you recognize as old American oil companies, are no longer anything but a brand name. Most are owned by the same holding company and so sell the same things even though their advertising would lead one to think they are different.
That leaves us pretty much with the equipment maker's offerings as they buy enough of whatever they carry to get the stuff made to their specs.
Unfortunately, Deere no longer offers a roller/idler lubricant. They do offer Corn Head grease which is as close a substitute as you are going to find. The stuff is somewhat thicker than what was originally used but is still runny enough to pump itself around inside the idlers and rollers.
What all the outfits sell these days for 140 weight is too runny as it's all really multigrade and a lot closer to 90 weight than 140 weight. At least I can't locate a source of straight-weight 140 or anything that says it's 140 and is actually anywhere near 140's viscosity.
The other problem is the gun one uses. You need a low pressure gun, and those haven't been made for about as long as the lubricants for rollers hasn't been. I have one, but only the one. The thing is that it has a lot of back pressure on the handle and so you can tell when it's time to stop pumping.
I use my low pressure gun with the Gargoyle lubricant as it's not a cartridge style gun. You have to pour the thick stuff in thru a cap. I use a pistol grip style gun with the Corn Head grease cartridges. I use my one finger on the end of the trigger to feel when it's time to stop pumping. However, you have to pay attention or it's easy to go too far and blow out a seal.
I use the old lube every other time I grease things, so my rollers have a mix of old and new in them all the time. This way the old grease will last probably until the end of my life. After which, I guess I don't care any longer what is used!
Later!
Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
-
- 430 crawler
- Posts: 57
- Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2009 2:58 pm
- Location: www.homegunsmith.com
- Stan Disbrow
- 350 crawler
- Posts: 2904
- Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:13 pm
- Location: Raleigh, NC
Hi,
Mixing chassis grease and multiweight 140 lubricant oil makes for a heavier lube oil but over time tends to unmix itself back into chassis grease and multiweight 140 lubricant oil.....
Guess who tried that once??
Fortunately it was in a jar to see if the stuff stayed mixed or not. It's a good thing I didn't stick it into something other than the jar!
The corn head grease is a light grease with slow flowing characteristics. The old style roller lubricant flows more readily and it better described as a thick oil rather than a grease.
Think of molasses and you pretty much know what the old stuff was like. You turn the container upside down and have to wait a minute for the gun to fill up.
My buddy's dad said that sort of thing was based on coal tar oil mixed with the heavier petroleum fractions contained in Penn crude. The coal tar base stock tends to be carcinogenic and has pretty much disappeared from the face of the earth these days.
Later!
Stan
Mixing chassis grease and multiweight 140 lubricant oil makes for a heavier lube oil but over time tends to unmix itself back into chassis grease and multiweight 140 lubricant oil.....
Guess who tried that once??
Fortunately it was in a jar to see if the stuff stayed mixed or not. It's a good thing I didn't stick it into something other than the jar!
The corn head grease is a light grease with slow flowing characteristics. The old style roller lubricant flows more readily and it better described as a thick oil rather than a grease.
Think of molasses and you pretty much know what the old stuff was like. You turn the container upside down and have to wait a minute for the gun to fill up.
My buddy's dad said that sort of thing was based on coal tar oil mixed with the heavier petroleum fractions contained in Penn crude. The coal tar base stock tends to be carcinogenic and has pretty much disappeared from the face of the earth these days.
Later!
Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
I ended up going to my local John Deere lawn equipment dealer and he had Corn head grease. Since I don't like going to the store often and wanted to grease all of the rollers as well, I ended up buying about 8 tubes. The saleperson asked me if I was putting up a corn head for the winter- I told him no I was just greasing up the undercarriage on a JD crawler. Hemust not have heard that before because he just stared blankly and scratched his head.
(1) JD Straight 450 crawler dozer with manual outside blade; (2) JD 2010 diesel crawler loaders; (1) JD 2010 diesel dozer with hydraulic 6-way blade; (2) Model 50 backhoe attachments, misc. other construction equipment
- Paul Buhler
- 350 crawler
- Posts: 991
- Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 6:25 pm
- Location: Killington, VT
My JD350 used to use "OO" grease per the manufacturer's recommendations; thicker than differential oil and thinner than the grease I used on the blade fittings. Since I can't find "OO" grease locally any more, and corn head grease was recommended as a substitute; that's what I use now for my rolls and idlers. I live in a cold place, and last week at 9 degrees F, my top roll spun nicely and freely when I lifted the track off of it. I've seen top rolls "stuck" because of a viscus grease which caused flat spots to develop. I'm happy using the corn head grease.
I sound like an advertisement, but it serves the intended purpose. I don't think that the rolls, idler or top roll generally build up very high temps, so thinning shouldn't be too much of an issue. When I run my machine for a longer period of time, I just give each fitting a few pumps using my low pressure gun (left over from the past) and walk away.
I like to use it on my screw track adjusters to get every thing moving freely by hand - thicker than oil and fluid enough to help clean out particles in the roots of the threads. When every thing moves freely by hand, then I put on a moly or lithium grease since it sticks nicely and tighten every thing down; I then coat the exposed threads with lithium or moly grease to help keep the dirt out of the roots of the threads so that when I do throw a track, I can quickly wire brush the threads and then the adjusting nuts will move easily.
Paul
I sound like an advertisement, but it serves the intended purpose. I don't think that the rolls, idler or top roll generally build up very high temps, so thinning shouldn't be too much of an issue. When I run my machine for a longer period of time, I just give each fitting a few pumps using my low pressure gun (left over from the past) and walk away.
I like to use it on my screw track adjusters to get every thing moving freely by hand - thicker than oil and fluid enough to help clean out particles in the roots of the threads. When every thing moves freely by hand, then I put on a moly or lithium grease since it sticks nicely and tighten every thing down; I then coat the exposed threads with lithium or moly grease to help keep the dirt out of the roots of the threads so that when I do throw a track, I can quickly wire brush the threads and then the adjusting nuts will move easily.
Paul
Paul Buhler
Killington, VT
420c 5 roll with 62 blade, FOPS, and Gearmatic 8a winch
Killington, VT
420c 5 roll with 62 blade, FOPS, and Gearmatic 8a winch
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