420 c pin and bushing question

[Paul Buhler]

Hi: I've been researching pin and bushing properties. I found out that Berco hardens to Rockwell 60, and the JD service manual gives these dimensions for pins and bushings. What I couldn't find in writing is the pin or bushing lengths. I measured the pins, and they measure roughly 5 1/2" long. Is this correct? and does any one know the bushing length? How accurate does the pin or bushing length need to be? Thanks. Paul

[Tigerhaze]

Hi Paul-

According to previous posts from Lavoy, the 420s-440s, 1010s, and early S/N 2010s all use the same pins and bushings. The pin diameter for early S/N 2010s is 1"; bushing diameter is 1-9/16".

I would think that the pin and bushing length is pretty critical- too long and they would rub against the roller flanges.

If you need pin/bushing lengths and no one responds, I have a set of new ones and could measure them this weekend.

[Lavoy]

Pin length can vary, bushing not so much. I don't have dimensions, but I think you can get the length off of the Deere site when you punch in the part number.
Lavoy

[JimAnderson]

Paul,
The pin measures 5.200 inchs and the bushing measures 3.220
inches.Hope this helps.JimAnderson

[Paul Buhler]

Thank you Jim and Gary. Jim your measurements should be accurate enough for my daughter to draw up both the pins and bushings in SolidWorks ( I'm rusty with AutoCad) for forwarding to a manufacturer. Gary, If you still have time to send me some photos so I can see any chamfers or rounding and include them in the drawings, I'd be appreciative.
I don't know where this will lead - it may work out and I've found a source of reasonably priced pins and bushings with appropriate wear, hardness, and dimensional characteristics, or I've spent some time learning more about my machine. In either case, I'm ahead. If in fact, this works out, I'll share the info and I really like that a few people helped move this project along. Thanks, Paul

BTW, How do people upload pictures so that they can be clicked on and seen in a larger size when posted to this site?

[JimAnderson]

Paul,
The measurements I posted were taken from John Deere parts.
I have a set of Berco pins and bushings and while the bushing length
is the same as Deere,the Berco pin is 5.370 long. I don't know why
that is but just thought I'd let you know.Luck,JimAnderson.

[Rex]

Just FWIW I had a frozen pin in the track of my 40 and was talking to the local JD parts guy. He said that there must be a lot of JD crawlers around because they were supplying lots of pins and bushes to the nearby track shop.
When I spoke to the track shop they said the JD p&b were a standard size (for excavators ?) but the pins were slightly longer which gave them more leeway.

Rex

[Stan Disbrow]

Hi,

I don't think Deere had track parts made special for them. So, what we have is most likely what was once a 'standard' and used on more than just crawlers.

When I had the Terratrac, which uses a smaller rail than the Deeres do, I found that it was also a 'standard' rail that was used on pneumatic drills - of all things!

While there were few of the old Terratracs made, there were lots and lots of pneumatic drills and suddenly finding u/c parts became a whole lot easier!

It was a matter of looking for the 'right' part!

So, now we have a new question to ask: what else used this size rail?

later!

Stan

[Paul Buhler]

Thanks for the comments and help. Rex, can you find out which piece of "standard" equipment these pins and bushings might fit in your neck of the woods? There are a lot of importers from Asia offering a large assortment of pins and bushings for a variety of newer machines. If I can find a match, the search for pins and bushings for my machine will be shortened considerably - as long as the match meets the hardness and tolerances allowed, and may be available locally. Some of the suppliers will ship as few as 10 pieces costing $2-$5 each vs ~$15ea through Deere. so a small order can be placed and since I need 68 pins and 70 bushings, I exceed the minimum anyway.
If I can find a setup that's already made to meet undercarriage specs, then I can feel reasonably assured that the parts won't fail in my application where as a one-off production run ( also being considered) has some risk particularly with the hardening and tempering. If necessary, I'm hoping that by taking a slow boat, the price for these parts will be reasonable, and my time line is flexible.

[Lavoy]

Paul,
This may or may not affect your search, but I have been looking for an alternate source for pins and bushings for 2 years or more now. There are no other rails that use the same pin and bushing as 420 Deere other than Deere. Any aftermarket supplier that would have these pins and bushing is because the made them as an OEM replacement part for the Deere rails. There may have been another piece of equipment that used these rails, like the air drill example. In that example, that manufacturer bought those rails from Terratrac rather than go through the hassle of tooling up their own. The Deere example I can think of is asphalt pavers. There used to be asphalt pavers that used 350 rails, but they bought them from Deere, or an outside supplier in later years. There also might be another rail that uses a similar pin or bushing like the excavator, but normally length will be different, or diameter. We call a 420 a 1" pin, but it is not, it is 1.005 or something like that. A 1.001 pin will not work, neither will a 1.010 pin, either they won't hold, or you can't press them in.
Almost no undercarriage manufacturers will ship small quantities, they deal in "groups", not individual pieces. I did get some small quantities from an undercarriage "supplier" that also did track work, but the cost in small quantities is prohibitive.
The people I have been working with have been talking to me about quantities in the 5000 piece range, and still not much progress. I did talk to a local guy about doing it quantities as low as 1000 pieces, but he is still researching material type and heat treating options.
Lavoy

[Paul Buhler]

Thanks for the comments and PMs on my project. Lavoy I sent you an email with an attached Word doc with pictures and dimensions gathered so far. Good luck in your search too - I'll race ya. If you win, you share; if I win, I'll share.

[Tigerhaze]

Paul-

I will get you photos over the weekend.

[Paul Buhler]

Thanks Gary. Paul

[Rex]

Hi Paul
At the moment I am only home nights. will contact them when I have time. In the mean time here is their web site http://www.scarlett.co.nz/
Rex

[pop pop]

hi guys, while were at it,, can someone post the pin to pin measurement? thanks.