440 ICD Engine shutting down.

[JD440ICD2006]

Any chance to get us a video of it start to shut down?

[parkmanaa]

Will shoot a video when we get a chance to play with this thing later this week.
Thanks,
parkmanaa

[parkmanaa]

Haven't had much time to play with the old 440 during last few weeks, however we did start it yesterday and it ran it's normal 4 to 5 minutes and shut down. Don't have a tach, but we run it at high RPM thruout that time.
We installed a pressure guage in fuel line where it enters the head. We watched it very closely and It reads 60 PSI from time engine first picks up RPM until it shuts down. Verified return fuel line has a restrictor elbow as it exits head.
Regarding theory problem may be bearings were over-torqued when engine was overhauled:
One thing seems to support that theory is fact we have to use jumper cables in addition to new, fully-charged 950 cranking amp battery to start it when cold (60 degrees +)
One thing that doesn't seem to point to that: Starter, with jumper cables and battery, will turn engine over immediately after it shuts down. Not fast enough to start it, though.

Had hoped to use this old dozer for the dirt work in our park expansion, but will just have to rely on my Kubota and 8N, I guess.

ID440ICD2006, haven't forgotten your idea of making a video of startup, run and shutdown cycle. Will attempt to do that soon.

[rlk60]

Check the fuel line, I was having the same problem. The rubber lining had decreased in size from age. Replaced the fuel line and it runs great.

[parkmanaa]

rlk60, we installed a new fuel line recently.

[JD440ICD2006]

Did you replace it with metal or rubber lines?
I have seen various kinds of rubber hose used, not all hydraulic hose is designed to work with diesel fuel. It may have a 5,000 PSI rating but that does not make it good for fuel. It has to be the expensive fuel rated hose if you are using rubber.

[parkmanaa]

We replaced the metal tubing with high-grade WOG (water, oil & gas) rubber hose of same ID as the metal tubing.
Only reason we replaced the line and elbow on the fuel pump was because the threads had stripped out on that end.
Engine is doing same thing before and after new line was installed.

[JD440ICD2006]

I just read the "jumper cables plus new 950 CCA battery".
There are several things going here. First, a rebuilt engine should spin fine with one battery and a good starter and solenoid. There is either a bad starter, or some other issue.
Even if the engine is so tight that it is causing the need for more battery, it will pour black smoke when it is shutting down. The govenor does not know why the engine speed is lower, so it will continue to add fuel.
If this is not happening when it shuts down, then you have a fuel starvation issue coupled with a possible issue that is causing the crank or something to bind.
Check your starter first to eliminate the fact that is may be the hard start issue.
Will know more when the video is avaiable.

[Gil]

If I read your April 14th post correctly:
1) when the engine has been sitting on a warm day the starter encounters more resistance than it should but still spins the engine at speed.
2) when trying to start the engine just after it has shut itself down the starter encounters even more resistance and will not spin the engine at speed.

Even if the starter is weak (a different issue) it appears to be encountering more resistance when the engine shuts itself off. You are proper to look for this resistance inside the engine, especially since it has just been rebuilt and since my first rule of thumb is that my problems usually come from the last thing I “fixed”. However you might also consider external resistance on the engine.

I can’t see how the engine clutch, direction reverser, or transmission might be involved but you might check. For example push in the engine clutch when it is starting to strain and see if relieves any resistance. More probably the front mounted hydraulic pump may be reaching some pressure limit. It is an open center system and must be able to flow hydraulic fluid back into the reservoir via the return line. Are all the hydraulic lines, cylinders, and valves hooked up and working like they were before you took out the engine? Can you operate the hydraulics normally when the engine is straining?

Listening to all you have done to date the variable seems to be that you are encountering resistance after 4 or 5 minutes either inside or outside the engine as indicated by the effort of the starter to turn it over. Only grasping at straws but worth a look for external sources as well.

[Also I assume that you are manually tugging on the throttle rack linkage when it is dying to try to speed it up. This would help identify any governor or linkage issues.]
Good luck, Gil

[parkmanaa]

Gil, #1 & #2 are correct.
When engine is 'cold' we have to use jumper cables in addition to the 950 cc battery to get sufficient cranking speed. After it shuts down, with the jumper cables still attached, engine will not turn over fast enough to start (even if it would???) But it does turn engine over, which is surprising.

We will follow-up on some of the ideas you present and advise.

When the engine is starting to shut down we do run the throttle back to half speed, back up to full speed, etc., but makes no difference in the RPM since it is shutting down anyway.
Phil

[Gil]

Don't just move the throttle lever but make sure the rack linkage is moving correctly at the engine.
Gil

[whiteclipse16]

Just a couple things to check.
1: My dad has a little Farmall Super A. He had been having problems starting it so he went and bought a new battery. The first start or two on the new battery were good, then it wouldn't start again. I checked current draw and there was nothing draining the battery and the generator was charging properly.
We pulled the starter off and found the one brush was wearing uneven and was only contacting the commutator by about half the brush. The other issue was that one of the screws connecting power to the fields was slightly stripped. Neither of which looked like enough to make a bad starter, but we fixed the issues and it cranks over like a top now.

2: When I was putting mine back together I had to make one of the studs that bolts the clutch housing to the engine. This stud was about 1/16" too long because when tightened down, I couldn't hardly turn the motor over, only with a pipe wrench.

Not sure if either of these may be your problem, but they are things to check.