Starting Issue with 450B

[srshaw3]

So my 450B was starting fine, then one day nothing. I pulled the dash panel off and found a loose wire, which when connected to power resulted in it starting. So, I used that process to start it, and then disconnected the wire when it started. Then that process stopped working, so thinking it might be a weak battery, I recharged my battery (new this year) and wired in a replacement starter button. Now I get a solid click, but nothing else.

In the car solenoid/starter world, this would imply a possibly failed starter. Anyone with any thoughts on this, or how to check further? Ideally before removing starter, as while it looks possible, it does look cramped.

If I need a started, there might still be an independant rebuilder in my area, unless there is a better option that someone knows of. Unless the starter is something special/expensive, if I am taking it out, I am going to want to put a new/rebuilt one back in.

[Tigerhaze]

Read this thread:

http://www.jdcrawlers.com/messageboard/ ... t=solenoid

[srshaw3]

Read this thread:

http://www.jdcrawlers.com/messageboard/ ... t=solenoid

Great, thank you!

[Tigerhaze]

This is another thread worth reading- it is specific to starters on 350 crawlers but the ideas would be the same. Just use part numbers mentioned with caution unless you confirm they arer same between 350s and 450s:

http://www.jdcrawlers.com/messageboard/ ... e+solenoid

[srshaw3]

I bought a starter/solenoid to put in, and have the old one disconnected but was not able to remove it due to access issues.

I am wondering if I need to remove the fuel line to the fuel pump to get it out, and if so, how do I prevent it from draining diesel continuously....?

Anyone that has done this recently, please let me know if you removed any other parts to get the starter out. Thank you!

[jdemaris]

I recharged my battery (new this year) and wired in a replacement starter button. Now I get a solid click, but nothing else.

In the car solenoid/starter world, this would imply a possibly failed starter. .

No it wouldn't. A "solid click" would indicate NO power it making its way to the starter. I.e., it's not getting past the solenoid. Your starter uses a standard automotive Delco solenoid with a brass contact disk. When it gets pitted - it slams in and makes a "click" but makes no electrical contact. Usually you can pull the cap off the solenoid and reverse the contacts to get new life out of them (if not done once already). Or you can buy a contact/cap kit. Better yet - a new solenoid only cost $20 if you shop around. You can change the solenoid without taking off the starter but it's not always easy. I've done many out in the field. Loosen the two 1/4" screw that hold it to the starter, unhook wires on the cap, unhook the brass power strap that goes to the starter - then rotate the solenoid 90 degrees and pull off.

[srshaw3]

No it wouldn't. A "solid click" would indicate NO power it making its way to the starter. I.e., it's not getting past the solenoid. Your starter uses a standard automotive Delco solenoid with a brass contact disk. When it gets pitted - it slams in and makes a "click" but makes no electrical contact. Usually you can pull the cap off the solenoid and reverse the contacts to get new life out of them (if not done once already). Or you can buy a contact/cap kit. Better yet - a new solenoid only cost $20 if you shop around. You can change the solenoid without taking off the starter but it's not always easy. I've done many out in the field. Loosen the two 1/4" screw that hold it to the starter, unhook wires on the cap, unhook the brass power strap that goes to the starter - then rotate the solenoid 90 degrees and pull off.

Sorry, you misunderstand, I said bad solenoid/starter, as I don't consider it worthwile to replace one without the other. The time spent in reviewing what is wrong is quickly lost. So, I have always found it reasonable to change both, unless the price is unreasonable. In this case for $110 I get both, replace them and am done with that possbility (more often than not) for several years.

[jdemaris]

Sorry, you misunderstand, I said bad solenoid/starter, as I don't consider it worthwile to replace one without the other. The time spent in reviewing what is wrong is quickly lost. So, I have always found it reasonable to change both, unless the price is unreasonable. In this case for $110 I get both, replace them and am done with that possbility (more often than not) for several years.

It's just semantics, I guess. I take words in technical discussions for their technical meanings (as defined in my head). You stated "this would imply a possibly failed starter."

The "click" you mentioned is usually due to a failed solenoid, not a failed starter but I can see how some people consider the two as one? There is also the situation where the solenoid could be working fine and the brushes in the starter quit making contact -and you'd still get a loud click. Whichever the problem, it can be clearly seen when apart.

There is an easy test to tell which situation causes the click. Just jump the battery post with the brass strap that connects the bottom of the solenoid to the starter . If it throws a big spark and starts to spin - you know the brushes are fine and the solenoid contacts are the problem.

I agree that by the time a solenoid is giving trouble - it's a good time to also check over the starter. But - many times all the starter needs is a $20 solenoid and a $10 set of brushes and it's good for many more years. I suspect if a shop is charging $110 - you're getting a few bushings, a solenoid "repair kit", and brushes. Probably $30 in parts.

We don't even have starter/alternator shops in my area anymore. So, there is no starter shop to go to anyway. You can buy a close-to-useless "rebuilt" starter at auto-parts stores for a car or truck. With a Deere tractor - you'd be out of luck.

In your situation - you can buy a brand new (not rebuilt) starter with better technology then your old one ( modern gear reduction) for $90-$100. The nice thing about buying these new starters is - you get to keep your old one for a spare. No core to trade in or get fixed. And that's a complete new starter/solenoid assembly, just to be clear.

I had a starter give me trouble on my Deere 300B not long ago (same starter you've got). I took it apart and checked all for wear. I could of patched it up for $20 in parts but . . . to truly rebuild with high-end internal parts would of cost over $130 in parts. Just the USA made HD starter-drive was $80. So, I got a brand new gear reduction starter instead. I later fixed the old one and kept it for a spare.

On a different note - what for a loose wire-harness connection on your 450 on top, just under the hood. It where the harness comes apart in case you want to remove the engine. It's a trouble spot for a loose connecting and "no crank" when the starter button is pushed in.