What is this wire and would it keep my engine from starting?

GRWeldon · Post by **GRWeldon** » Sat Jan 18, 2014 6:18 pm

Was using the crawler Thursday night. Parked it for the night and came back the next evening and it wouldn't crank. Checked battery voltage and it's fine. I've had problems with the starter solenoid in the past so I figured that was the problem. Today I replaced the solenoid and it still won't crank. When I was doing all this I noticed a wire that had a broken terminal on it just hanging in the general area of the starter. In the picture it's the wire hanging on the fuel line. Can anybody tell me what it is and where it goes? I'm thinking it's supposed to go to the solenoid (makes the most sense) but I don't want to mess anything up. Can't really tell anything from the parts manual or any other manual.

http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/al ... 55B15D.jpg

There are only so many things it can be but I'm assuming this orphaned wire is the problem. Can anybody help?!

Thanks...
Glen

Unclebeef · Post by **Unclebeef** » Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:56 am

hello, it's hard to tell from the picture but you should have a wire hooked up to the small terminal on the solenoid, which is hot during starting only. to test if the loose wire is what needs to be hooked up-connect a test light to it and press the start button, if its hot only when you press the start button, that's the culprit. simply reconnect it and it should crank. I would suggest to replace the terminal end with a ring style that will not slip off again. hope this helps.

Stan Disbrow · Post by **Stan Disbrow** » Sun Jan 19, 2014 11:58 am

Hi,

Looks like the starter engage terminal is pretty well covered up in that pic. I can see some of the threads, but no wire, or even a nut. I see the loose wire with the spade lug, and bet it is the one that comes from the starter switch.

I would hazard a guess you lost the nut and then the wire fell off the terminal.

As was already suggested, check and see if that loose wire really is the start switch wire with a test light or voltmeter.....

Stan

jtrichard · Post by **jtrichard** » Sun Jan 19, 2014 12:40 pm

Stan the small you see in the pic is the "R" terminal.... the start is on the side you cant see there is a wire in the black "tube" that looks like it might hook to the "S" terminal....#1 a better pic is need #2 check voltage when key is in crank position at "S" terminal if none then check neutral safety switch??? #3 check voltage on back of switch on start terminal

GRWeldon · Post by **GRWeldon** » Sun Jan 19, 2014 7:43 pm

You know, I really feel like an idiot at this point. I never did check to see if the machine is in neutral. I'm not where it is at the moment so I can't check, but I'd say chances are 50/50 that it is NOT in neutral.

In any case, I needed to pull the solenoid to tighten up the starter anyway. The bolt on the rear side was loose and I could move the starter a good bit by jiggling it with my hand. I discovered this after I bought it and it was on my list of things to correct. The solenoid I replaced was looking bad and the stud terminals were loose from the plastic cap end so it needed to be replaced anyway.

There are two round terminals securely fastened to the stud on the side of the solenoid that you can't see. The wire that's not attached appears to have been a round terminal as well, but broke in half. It does not appear to be a spade terminal. The ends where it may have broken appear to be shiny like it broke in two. Honestly, I don't remember it being connected to anything to begin with. Even if it is found that the machine is not in neutral and that was the problem, I still need to know where this thing goes. It comes out of the wiring harness from the alternator.

Thanks for the tips guys, I'll look tomorrow and see what I find.

DrLoch · Post by **DrLoch** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:42 am

I have a wire like that hanging on my 450C, it was for the oil pressure sending unit. Was electric now it's mechanical. Hopefully it wasn't in neutral or the switch is bad.

jtrichard · Post by **jtrichard** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:19 pm

looking at the parts manual it looks like they used the same wiring harness in both the gas and diesel and it looks like that lose wire is the wire that goes to the coil on a gas rig....it also looks like that one of the wires that is hooked to the small terminal on your solenoid goes on the out side terminal that would be for "hot" start on gas so if you check you could have 6 volts on that lose wire when the key is on and 12 volts when you are cranking time to get a volt meter out

GRWeldon · Post by **GRWeldon** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:53 pm

OK Guys... here's the latest...

I charged the batteries up and the solenoid is working properly but the starter is not turning. Might it be possible that the starter was loose to begin with because tightening it put it in a bind and wouldn't allow it to turn? That's the only thing that is different now except for the new solenoid that I put on. I really don't want to change the starter if there is nothing wrong with it. I guess I'll loosen it back up and see if it will move.

The loose wire, apparently it does nothing and I should probably put some heat-shrink on it to keep it from shorting out on something. As JTRichard suggested, same wiring harness on both diesel and gas. Coil wire for gas is a pretty good possibility.

Opinions/suggestions welcome as always...

original possum · Post by **original possum** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 5:26 pm

If it works when loosened don't leave it that way - take it out. The solenoid will not send current to the starter motor if something is preventing the pinion from fully engaging. And if it is, you want to fix it or will have greater problems later.

Tigerhaze · Post by **Tigerhaze** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 5:45 pm

I would venture to guess that the starter itself (windings, etc.) finally gave out given the cold weather and is preventing it from turning over properly even though the solenoid is working. Cold weather is heck on old electrical/mechanical parts especially if some moisture condensed within it due to cold weather. If you didn't loosen or tighten the starter prior to it stopping working, then it really seems it could be that issue and a rebuild may be needed. Obviously you can have the starter tested once it is removed.

Tigerhaze · Post by **Tigerhaze** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 5:45 pm

Duplicate post

GRWeldon · Post by **GRWeldon** » Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:51 am

Removed the starter last night. What a pain! Only two bolts but they are extremely hard to get to. Had to remove the dipstick tube and unbolt the fuel pump to be able to slide it out.

It's dead. Attaching positive battery connection to the copper strip on top and touching the negative terminal to the solenoid boss produces an arc. I'd say the armature is grounded to the case somehow. There is a core charge on a reman starter otherwise I would tear it down and see what is wrong.

Deere wants a ton for a reman starter. Lavoy, do you have them?

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What is this wire and would it keep my engine from starting?

What is this wire and would it keep my engine from starting?

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